Padded weapons

[Denise Smith]

I first e-mailed Jake about my idea just to see if I was way-out in left field on this... not wanting to look overly ignorant.
This is what I asked:
"I was just reading through all the postings about padded weapons. I was wondering what would happen if you make a the wooden slat version but adhered a thin layer of fiberglass cloth like they use to repair cars. It might give it the strength not to break as easy while being only a light weight addition to weapon. I was also wondering if the padding is glued down or is it just being taped around the wood? If glued wouldn't it reduce some of the internal trauma to the foam because the foam wouldn't be impacted by both the external force (i.e. sword on body of opponent) as well as the wooden slat inside. Wouldn't the glue also add another layer of strength?
If automotive fiberglass it too expensive there are fiberglass carpet tapes that are designed for heavy impact and wear. Has anyone tried any combination of wood with fiberglass cloth?"

One flaw I can already see is in my idea is... if the padding is glued to the wood than it can not be easily removed when damaged even if it does last longer.

So I was wondering what all you padded weapon engineers thought about the fiberglass cloth idea. As I understand it there is a need for a weapon rigid enough not to whip, durable enough not to break easily, yet soft enough not to break bones.

I'm an artist not an engineer but it seems that you either soften the hard materials or strengthen the weak ones without making them break bones.

When engineering crash barriers for roads the use a layer of a crushable material (i.e. barrels) to slow the impact of the car hitting a bridge support. What on the padded weapon does this other than the foam? What can be inserted on the cutting edges between the ridged wood and the soft foam... Rubber tubing might be an option, the type they use in the medical field or the type used in plumbing a kitchen sink for the hand held sprayer (it has fiberglass thread reinforcement in it)... just brainstorming a bit...

Is there any health/ safty issues with this idea?

I will continue to work on this idea. Is there anyone out there familiar with autobody products? What about products in the construction field or airplane construction materials. Does any of this sound plausible enough to test or would I be wasting time & money?

I'm used to walking into hardware stores and seeing things for a different purpose so it isn't a giant step for me to ask the same about other supplies and materials.

[david welch]

We have been making ours with the padding glued to the core. Spray adhesive is an easy to use glue for this.

Fiberglassing a wooden core might work. Just make sure you watch the weight and balance... you want a padded sword, not a bludgeon.

[Jaron Bernstein]

I have no idea how me makes them, but you might want to ask Jeanry Chandler, whose paddeds I highly endorse and use often. I hear Lance Chen makes good ones also,but haven't personally used them yet.

[Bill Welch]

All the padded ones that I hade made were out of flattened PVC, with the padding spray glued to the pvc core, and covered with duct tape.
I never put any weight at the tip of the pvc core. All my weight was distributed along the grip and strong of the core with flat pieces of steel that i got at home depot. I tried to put the weight in the center of it, but it makes them sound like they are going to fly apart at any second.
I have never had a problem with them being whippy, and we fight pretty hard with them, I figure the olipticle shape helps keep them from bending much.
I am about to make some out of sch 80, and see how they do, we have had a two break around the cross, but the rest of them are still in good shape.

[Jake_Norwood]

Yeah, the flattened PVC ones were pretty nice. I had all my crosses break on them, and a few break right at the hilt (not unlike a few steel swords I've seen, actually). I also recall the steel inside would come loose. But that was, what, 2004?

Jake

[Will Adamson]

You got me thinking of some other things to use to reinforce the slats. Strapping tape may an option, although I'm not sure of the weight issue.

The riggers at my Guard unit have rip-stop nylon fabric with a sticky backing for patching parachutes. I'm not sure how this kind of stuff would be obtained on the civilian market. I kind of doubt skydiving parachutes get patched too much. I'd rather replace mine if it got that worn!

I was thinking of using this stuff to hold the foam on, but it's probably stong enough for the purpose you bring up. I'll try to get my hands on some of it to experiment with at next drill.

-Will

[s_taillebois]

M. Smith,
Good potential idea. On the resin, fiberglass, it would add some impact strength to the wood. One disadvantage, is dependant on the resins/hardeners used, fibreglass can be somewhat brittle.
Since you mentioned being in the arts, one possible revision to your concept would be to get some 'smooth on' or another similar polymer compounds. If you're in a place with a good arts supply store they should carry it, if not Blick or the manufacturers ship on catalog orders.
A thin coating of molding material over the fiberglass should provide some impact buffering; and the high strength versions of these molding materials are really quite tough. And depending on the formula, the surface of the molding material can be somewhat smooth and slick, likely approximating the feel of steel better than some types of woven fibreglass's. (I've bolstered some wasters with canvas and glues, which enhances longivity, but the blades drag when warding)
Problems, only the lovely fumes produced when mixing the fibreglass, but if you're in the arts you'd know the safety procedures for that problem.
And applying the mold material would have to be done carefully to get the surface needed; and some experimentation might be required to see how well the two can be bonded. (some use fibreglass backings for flexible molds, but these are keyed into place)
And cost, if something like smooth on is used, the stuff is somewhat pricey...

[Denise Smith]

M. Smith,
Good potential idea. On the resin, fiberglass, it would add some impact strength to the wood. One disadvantage, is dependant on the resins/hardeners used, fibreglass can be somewhat brittle.
Since you mentioned being in the arts, one possible revision to your concept would be to get some 'smooth on' or another similar polymer compounds. If you're in a place with a good arts supply store they should carry it, if not Blick or the manufacturers ship on catalog orders.
A thin coating of molding material over the fiberglass should provide some impact buffering; and the high strength versions of these molding materials are really quite tough. And depending on the formula, the surface of the molding material can be somewhat smooth and slick, likely approximating the feel of steel better than some types of woven fibreglass's. (I've bolstered some wasters with canvas and glues, which enhances longivity, but the blades drag when warding)
Problems, only the lovely fumes produced when mixing the fibreglass, but if you're in the arts you'd know the safety procedures for that problem.
And applying the mold material would have to be done carefully to get the surface needed; and some experimentation might be required to see how well the two can be bonded. (some use fibreglass backings for flexible molds, but these are keyed into place)
And cost, if something like smooth on is used, the stuff is somewhat pricey...

I'm not familiar with the product you mention but I will look into it. It did make me think of the rubber tool handle dip that you can get at the hardware stores though. I wonder if instead of the fiberglass cloth... just pour a layer of the rubber coat over the wood to reduce the breakage and increase strength... it might reduce the shock vibration into the hands too... I'm still brainstorming!

"How to build a better padded weapon... who needs mouse traps?"

[Eric Dohner]

"How to build a better padded weapon... who needs mouse traps?"

The world might not beat a path to your door, but I think the rest of us would.

[s_taillebois]

M. Smith,

"Smooth On' , "Por a Mold" and the like are essentially a polymer and a hardening compound, which can be mixed into various viscousities (sp). If you're near a University with a sculpture program, they'd be able to tell you about these materials. The bronze casting contingent, and the special effects people also use these materials fairly frequently.
The tool handle stuff, good, but somewhat less tough than a high tensile mold material.
Another possibility would be to have an inner core made of somewhat flexible fibreglass, or light metal; and by using a 2 section mold, have the remainder of the waster made of a polymer. Might not be quite traditional, but could be fairly tough, and could approach the flexibility, rigidity balance you had alluded to earlier. And suited to multiple manufacture...

[Denise Smith]

M. Smith,

"Smooth On' , "Por a Mold" and the like are essentially a polymer and a hardening compound, which can be mixed into various viscosities

I looked it up and these products are similar to what cake decorators now use to create their own molds (only without the added expense of having to be 'food grade'.

I have 'googled' it and fond several sources. Working primarily with youth in our study group I must think of safe ways for them to learn without jeopardizing the historical accurateness and the ARMA way.

I shall start making some tests and prototypes. It will take me a few weeks so be patient but I'll post my results.