half-swording timeline

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Eddie Smith
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Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:41 pm

half-swording timeline

Postby Eddie Smith » Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:56 pm

How far back do we have evidence for half swording? I wonder because it seems less likeley going back in history due to more common shield usage, giving the left hand a job. but then again shields can break, be lost, or just not be at hand. So what is the earlilest evidence?

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Jeffrey Hull
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I say 1350 at latest

Postby Jeffrey Hull » Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:29 am

Although there are earlier sources portraying and/or describing such, sources like Ringeck (1438-40) and Von Danzig (1452) attribute their half-sword stuff way back to Liechtenauer (circa 1375-80).

:idea: Thus then I would say it is a safe guess that half-swording was in full-swing by 1350 -- if not far earlier.
JLH

*Wehrlos ist ehrlos*

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Allen Johnson
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Postby Allen Johnson » Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:38 am

The point of half swording is to gain an advantage in leverage or to better aim a hard thrust. Since these people obviously knew how to fight effectivley and efficiently I'd say they figured it out very early. If we see evidence of "half-swording" with daggers (half-daggering? :D ) then I think it's pretty safe to assume they tried it or at least considered it for most other weapons. It's obviously more important in longer swords because you have a bigger 'weak' portion of the blade due to it being so far from the source of power, your hands.
"Why is there a picture of a man with a sword in his head on your desk?" -friends inquiry

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John_Clements
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Location: Atlanta area

Re: half-swording timeline

Postby John_Clements » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:24 am

I have some 12th or 13th century images of short swords being halfed.
They may be in teh Art Talk section. If not they wil be in time.

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Richard Strey
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Location: Cologne, Germany

Postby Richard Strey » Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:29 am

Eddie, your post addresses two different things. First, you ask for *evidence* regarding half-swording. On this topic I have nothing to add to Jeffrey's, Allen's and John's replies. They sum it up very well.
The second sentence of your post takes us away from evidence into the realm of speculation (or, hypothesis, as we scientists would call it). Luckily, we are in the position to make educated guesses. My own experience and watching other practitioners tells me this: If the need arises and there are no other tactical considerations contradicting it, half-swording is a very natural thing to do. I -personally- have no doubts whatsoever that half-swording was well known from very time, the ape picked up a stick and consequently applied. It was refined, off-hand objects like a shield, a buckler or a dagger may have modified its application or frequency of use, but it was *there*. Even though the argument "People were'nt stupid, back then" has been overused in the past to explain almost anything, I really do believe it applies here. Half-swording as a tactical concept of using leverage is too simple to not have been used. Heck, I've seen little boys use it on one another five minutes after getting their first wooden swords.


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