Two handers

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Rodolfo Martínez
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Postby Rodolfo Martínez » Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:32 am

I heard that in medieval times a wealthy man could order a custom swords, but somedays ago i saw some strange sword replicas with truly long grips (I don´t know if they were customized ones). The first one, the smith said it was a two hander, but the blade lenght was 90 cm long, and it´s grip was 27 cm long. It´s weight was around 3 pounds, like a Oakeshott type XX sword but with parallel edges, and 3 fullers, two of them only over it´s ricasso and the central and longer one till the middle of the blade.Very similar to ¨The Munich¨ sword shown in albion armury page In other site i saw a longsword with a very short grip (Around 2o cm including pommel), and without a good distance between hands when holding the sword, it,s overall lenght was 1.7m and it´s weight around 2.5 pounds. But Were those swords true longswords?
Non nobis Domine...

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Allen Johnson
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Postby Allen Johnson » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:16 am

it would be easier to guess if you had a link to the pictures.
"Why is there a picture of a man with a sword in his head on your desk?" -friends inquiry

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Rodolfo Martínez
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Postby Rodolfo Martínez » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:32 am

If you have time, please take a look, it seems to be a two hander, but it is a bastard sword, I was wrong, the smith said it was a one and a half sword not a two hander. But it has long ricasso and a very long grip. A beautiful blade.

http://www.myarmoury.com/review_aa_custxx.html

And about the other sword, i only have the image

http://www.geocities.com/moro_villar/fo ... starda.jpg

Thank you.
Non nobis Domine...

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Allen Johnson
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Postby Allen Johnson » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:34 am

The second one is certainly a bastard sword- not a true two hander.
"Why is there a picture of a man with a sword in his head on your desk?" -friends inquiry

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Mars Healey
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Postby Mars Healey » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:54 pm

Doesn't that second one look more like a one-handed rapier?

The first one is a beautiful blade. I'd be a happy camper to have that in my collection.
"Practice knighthood, and learn the Art that dignifies you."
-Johannes Liechtenauer
Western Swordsmanship Technique & Research

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Allen Johnson
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Postby Allen Johnson » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:12 am

it does sort of give that impression with that half cage coming off the hilt, but I'm pretty confident that its a bastard.

Here are a few other similar ones. Beautiful weapons...love em!
http://www.myarmoury.com/albums/display ... 17&pos=205
http://www.myarmoury.com/albums/display ... 17&pos=271
http://www.myarmoury.com/albums/display ... =17&pos=38
http://www.myarmoury.com/albums/display ... =17&pos=37
"Why is there a picture of a man with a sword in his head on your desk?" -friends inquiry

kenneth house
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Postby kenneth house » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:44 am

Rodolfo Martínez wrote:I know little more than nothing about swords and martial arts, but this is what i think.
Well, i did´t know that African martial arts existed, but that doesn´t surprise me. African warriors are pretty skilled. Some days ago i saw two warriors( I think they are Massai) fighting with long sticks, and they were performing the fight pretty fast. Those warriors were very skilled, but the purpouse of the fight wasn´t killing the other warrior, it was a fight between members of different tribes. One of the rules of this fight was not to attack an opponent when he is in the floor (I can´t remember any more). Massai warriors fight even against male lions, and if you don´t know how to use a spear and a shield properly as almighty God demands, be sure of becoming the lion´s meal. Surelly a lot more cultures had martial arts techniques for their warriors.

The Hausa's Gangi not only perform their weapons based martial art for demonstrations purposes during festival ocassions, they use them in real disputes after the hunting expeditions when one Gangi challenges the hunter/associated Gangi prowess of another. Serious injury and death are often the results, so these are not armchair enthusiasts.


About this quote, medieval martial arts are not only for demostration purpouses, i mean, you are not going to kill anybody, but in the past those techniques were used in war, to shred blood. So demonstration purpouse during festival ocassions, could be, but remember that Japanese samurais, European Knights and Massai warriors are trained to kill, not to entertain.

The use of one versus two swords may be cultural/systems based as well. Given the emphasis of thrusting in the European traditions, as opposed to, say, my own African traditions (such as that of the Gangi, whose weapons use features double sword and" machete" based techniques as well as Kaskara use-the Gangi are the traditional warrior/hunters of the Hausa- examples of whom are found across Western Africa- speaking peoples of Nigeria), it does not appear to have been of practical use in the European based systems.


And remember that weapons wich can seem useless with some techniques can be very effective with others, you see, if you try to half sword with a Katana shurely you will lose your fingers, so Katanas aren´t for practical use in european half sword tachniques. But Katanas are very effective in kendo techs. Someone who studies kendo or another samurai martial art will not find of any utility straight arming swords, two handers or longswords, but in hands of a medieval knight those straight ¨archaic clumsy things¨(Ironically, i had problems to say such thing without explanation :x ) became lethal weapons capable of dismembering while being unsharpened, very versatile weapons. See the rapier, a kendo student will surely see a rapier and will laugh, but the rapier, used with proper techniques is a very lethal weapon, this techniques are not foun in kendo, and is not practic try those moves with Katanas or wakizashis, but this doesn´t useless or non practical rapier swords. So Machete or twin sword techniques of Nigerians can seem to be non practical from the Flos duellatorum, but with African martial arts techniques can be very lethal. Weapons or their combination are not made to suit in every martial art, For example when you see an abysinian shotel (A double edged sword with a semicircular curvature) you soonly discover that is not good at stabing, or slashing, not for using Dei Liberi techniques, but those swords are made to grip, and with the style of abysinians those shotels can be deadly (Maybe you can grip your opponent´s neck :? ) The same goes for japanese Kamas, out of ninjutsu those weapons doesn´t seem to be very practical, but they are.

Que Dios los bendiga.

P.D. Are bastard swords more versatile than two handers? (Talking about being in the middle of the battlefield foot fighting against heavy and lightly armored senemies)


Thanks for the reply. My basic point was that two handed weapons will work as well as single weapons under the right set of circumstances/rules-of-engagement. Every methodology has its inherent strengths and weaknesses. No method has a monopoly on effective results.

Fraternal,

Kenneth House
If you miss me with your thrust, cancel christmas...

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Rodolfo Martínez
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Postby Rodolfo Martínez » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:29 am

Yes, the first one is a beautiful blade, i love long grip blades with such beautifull blade. They have also some practise longswords, like feather swords too.

http://www.myarmoury.com/review_aa_fech.html
Take a look to these ones:
http://www.myarmoury.com/review_sc_wast.html
http://www.myarmoury.com/review_cf_at1520.html
Take a look to this monster, i´m not sure if it is a XV century sword or a XVI century blade, it´s like Albion´s the Dane:
http://www.myarmoury.com/review_at1592.html

The practise longswords have very long grips (Around 9 inches in some cases), did longswords used for battle had such grips, or only the around 7 inches grip?

I found in a site a sword titled ¨two handed longsword¨, but i think those were fantasy swords, did such longswords exist in xv century, like another type of swords, or their longer grips and ricasso were only customized longswords?

Here is the sword:
http://www.knightsedge.com/swords/two-h ... -sword.htm

Thanks for the Patience.
Non nobis Domine...

LynGrey
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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:10 pm

Postby LynGrey » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:26 pm

Those things are beautiful.. love it 3rd one is just awesome in everyway.. there are things i want to do that are just unexplainable in text. I like simple looking blades.. they are the greatest in my opinion, and they are hard to find. I favor the blades in the 39 inch range, with a 10 inch grip thats "split". A good size for me, two handed and still have an advantage, and one handed i can easily swing around.

Either way.. some nice baldes.. nice nice...


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