Leychmeistere Fechtbuchs?

[Aaron Kavli]

Howdy,

Are there any fighting manuscripts (period, not modern!) from any play fighters, or books that are suspected of being so?

Reading Liechtenauer, I have wondered if he would have considered certain later masters we study as being leychmeistere, as some illustrate more specific stances,guards, and strikes.

[John_Clements]

Hi

I think you are missing the point. The Masters considered such itinerant carnival performers beneath them precisely because such entertainers were not skillfully representing the true Art or using viable fighting techniques. It would thus be very unlikely any of these performers would have created training "guides" on how to “fake fight." Make sense?

While nearly any of these martial arts teachings could have recreational application in non lethal practice or contest, I do not see any evidence any later source works reflect anything other than serious self-defense techniques, certianly not methods intended for stunt fencing or sporting play. They were fighting manuals, not choreogpraphy manuals.

JC

[Aaron Kavli]

I had figured it would be unlikely, based on the idea that it was very expensive to make a book and that only someone who truly appreciated the art would take the time or effort to do so.

But ego and the desire for recognition/status have often been prime motivators, so I could see such a play fighter--if he had the resources--trying to make a book as a feather in his cap. It would be interesting (or humorous) to compare such a fechtbuch against the real thing.

[Jaron Bernstein]

Were there not some later Spanish manuals that resembled dancing mathematics more than was useful?

[LafayetteCCurtis]

Well, the Spanish (or rather Jeronimo Carranza's) Destreza was an effective system and continued to be so into the age of classical fencing, but its presentation does take some rather questionable paths in regards to practicality. Just a proof that no matter how effective the system is, it'll make no sense if you don't explain it well.

[Axel Pettersson]

Howdy,

Are there any fighting manuscripts (period, not modern!) from any play fighters, or books that are suspected of being so?

Reading Liechtenauer, I have wondered if he would have considered certain later masters we study as being leychmeistere, as some illustrate more specific stances,guards, and strikes.

Someone at swordforum mentioned that Lekuchner inclued "show off techniques" for public display in his writings. I have not read lekuchner though and I might very well have misunderstood what was said on the forum.

/Axel

[Richard Strey]

Howdy,

Are there any fighting manuscripts (period, not modern!) from any play fighters, or books that are suspected of being so?

Reading Liechtenauer, I have wondered if he would have considered certain later masters we study as being leychmeistere, as some illustrate more specific stances,guards, and strikes.

Someone at swordforum mentioned that Lekuchner inclued "show off techniques" for public display in his writings. I have not read lekuchner though and I might very well have misunderstood what was said on the forum.

/Axel

Axel, didn't anyone teach you to properly cite your sources? Click here to get to the SFI thread containing Greg's and Jörg's posts.

[Axel Pettersson]

Howdy,

Are there any fighting manuscripts (period, not modern!) from any play fighters, or books that are suspected of being so?

Reading Liechtenauer, I have wondered if he would have considered certain later masters we study as being leychmeistere, as some illustrate more specific stances,guards, and strikes.

Someone at swordforum mentioned that Lekuchner inclued "show off techniques" for public display in his writings. I have not read lekuchner though and I might very well have misunderstood what was said on the forum.

/Axel

Axel, didn't anyone teach you to properly cite your sources? Click here to get to the SFI thread containing Greg's and Jörg's posts.

Ooops! As a pol sci student, that makes my ears go red, will repent!

Interesting anyhow, that a renowned master would include "show fighting" in his teachings, and (as I understood from the sfi posts) used them for public display.

[LafayetteCCurtis]

Interesting anyhow, that a renowned master would include "show fighting" in his teachings, and (as I understood from the sfi posts) used them for public display.

I guess he needed them to make sure he wouldn't accidentally lose one of his students permanently in one of those demonstrations. Mhehehe.

[Martin Surdel]

Hi

My first post, so a little introduction: I'm a member of ARMA-Poland, and I've been working with other people on CGM 582 (polish translation and interpretation) for more than two years.

Actually, those aren't exactly given as "show figting" - they're mostly "less-than-lethal" alternative endings.

Only two Stuecke in Leckuchner's CGM 582 are clearly described as "belonging only to school-play", and one of them (the Verkehrer) has also more serious application - we've been working with this and found it quite effective when targeting head and neck instead of lower back.