Fantasy author: book on historical tech, not history of...

[John Hull]

Hi!

I'm new. I've explored this site extensively, and I think the ARMA site, and the ARMA mission, is fantastic.

I have a specific question. I'm taking up writing, and your typical fantasy setting is my genre so far. One thing I'd like to do is have some semblance of reality viz. historical combat.

Thinking that "The Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe" would be a great source for that, I bought it and found it to be a scholarly tome on the history of instruction, diffusion, and nomenclature of techniques more than strictly a presentation of historical techniques. Bearing in mind that the larger picture is necessary for historical understanding, something I recognize, I still need something that is more of a focused presentation of techniques and how to perform them.

I welcome recommendations instruction manuals, I guess, on historical techniques in European martial arts. I don't want history, however; that is, I need step-by-step instruction that will help me translate realistic movements into prose. Imagine picking up a bjj book by one of the Gracies; one can translate those into fictional prose without knowing how Brazilian jiu-jitsu came to be, why it came to be, or why it's effective.

Please note that I've spent quite a bit of time on the site, and I've explored the historical manuals offered here. But that doesn't mean I've not missed anything! Your insights will be helpful, I'm sure.

Thanks!

[Allen Johnson]

A big help for us would be to know what kind of weapons you are looking at. Is it more viking or early medieval sword and shield or later renaissance true two handers? What kind of armour? Plate? Mail? Padded? Rapiers? Cut & Thrust?

[LafayetteCCurtis]

I'd second Allen's question, because "generic" fantasy setting is already a fairly broad category extending roughly from good old Norman times (Battle of Hastings, that is) down to the 16th century. You'd have to be more specific to get specific recommendations, since fighting techniques underwent much development and evolution throughout the period.

I learn swordsmanship both for the sake of it and as hands-on research for my fantasy writing, as a matter of fact, so welcome to the fold.

[John Harmston]

MEDIEVAL SWORDSMANSHIP / RENAISSANCE SWORDSMANSHIP / SIGMUND RINGECK'S KNIGHTLY ART OF THE LONGSWORD and any of the historic manuals listed on this website http://www.thearma.org/manuals.htm

[Benjamin Smith]

There are also manuals on dagger, staff, and pole-arm fighting, besides actual historical manuals that you can buy yourself.

If you want a sort of written description of how a particular fight could play out, give us a specific scene including: weapons, armor, skill levels, numbers, and any fantastic abilities that someone might have and I'm sure you'll get five or six different responses.

[John Hull]

A big help for us would be to know what kind of weapons you are looking at.

Good question. To be honest, I reckoned that I'd be the beggar, and therefore couldn't be the chooser. I figured that I could adjust to meet the source, rather than insisting on a source to fit my fantasy.

I wasn't thinking too great when I first posted, 'cos I was intimidated about such a cheesy question. Here's an example of something I might be looking for: cattle-catch neck crank (nice and lethal). That is not to imply I know the best format; it's just what I know.

MEDIEVAL SWORDSMANSHIP / RENAISSANCE SWORDSMANSHIP....

Okay, so are Clements's books heavy in technique? Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to reading The Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe. It's just that, after visiting this site, I'm stunned at how wonderful the European sword arts were, and being ADD I need something that is technique heavy. Or Ringeck's longsword?

A question about the historical mauals: are texts updated to modern English? In some cases the illustrations are beyond brilliant—e.g., Cappo Ferro's (sp?) rapier text—are they readable?

Please note that money is tight, and I've got a hard-copy brain.

LafayetteCCurtis, are you published?

[Justin Lompado]

Nobody's mentioned the Codex!

Pick up the Codex Wallerstein. Its page after page of techniques, from ringen to swords and messers and daggers.

[Jake_Norwood]

John,

John's book are all technique and application. So are Ringeck, Wallerstein, and most of the other books out there. Anglo's book is special because it's *not* all technique, but rather context. You need both, and from the sound of it these other books will round out what you didn't get in Anglo.

Jake

[John Hull]

John's book are all technique and application. So are Ringeck, Wallerstein, and most of the other books out there. Anglo's book is special because it's *not* all technique, but rather context.

That's hilarious, because I debated long and hard about which to get first. I was looking at Clements's books, but I misunderstood what Anglo's book was about and got that instead. (Again, not that it's not valuable. E.g., knowing the what and why of judo, and that bjj is its kissing cousin, helps in understanding the techniques, especially if juxtaposed against traditional jiu-jitsu.) It may mean a few more bologna-sandwich dinners, but it'll be worth it to get what I'm looking for.

Thank you all very much for your assistance. Any further insights will be wonderful as well.

-jsh

[LafayetteCCurtis]

Unfortunately, I'm not published yet. I'm currently in the first draft of my second novel while fermenting the first before the next stage of rewriting. I hope to start queying agents somewhere around the middle of this year.

As for the techniques, I agree with Jake in that studying only the techniques would be an incomplete and unsatisfying experience. You'd be best served by reading both a context/overview book and a specific techniques book. I'd also recommend John's book, as well as books dealing with specific masters even if they come from WMA societies whose interpretations do not always coincide with ARMA's, such as Ramon Martinez's books on the Spanish Destreza and Tom Leoni's book on Salvator Fabris.

For medieval stuff...well, go for John's. Christian Tobler's books might also be interesting if you're patient enough to look over and examine the differences and similarities in interpretation.

In short, the thing to remember in swordsmanship is that "good practice is based in sound theory and sound theory is derived from good practice." Even if you don't plan on taking up WMA yourself, it'd be a good idea to get a basic grounding in both the theory and practice of the art.