To Cross Or Not To Cross

[Guest]

It seems to me that being able to fight from a crossed swords situation was very important to most of the medieval masters. Whether it be the binden and winden of the Germans or the Incrossada that virtually all of Fiore's longsword plays start from, it appears to be a big part of longsword fencing. What troubles me is that in my own training, although I can do techniques from a crossed swords working slowly with a cooperative partner, It almost never happens in a free play situation. Why do I rarely achieve the crossed swords situation that lends itself to all the cool winding, thrusting, and grappling that I see in the historical texts? What am I missing? Has anyone else observed this in their own free play?

[Guest]

I do share the fear of crossing to some extent, here hilts mean a lot, crossing in long sword play with cross hilts means the possibility to be hit to the hands easily, but this works for you too. Side rings make things safer, anyhow from the crossed blades offence for both parties becomes faster and one has the sensation that one side is controlled by his opponent, while the proximity of the enemy's blade generates some anxiety.
I won the fear of the cross in single sword and sabre play, my weapons have either basket or sabre hilts, but more than this counted the ability to cross at my advantage (forte to weak).
I have had a (secret for some time <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />) love affair with sabres and a couple of years ago went so far as to spar sabre VS longsword because my opponent wanted to use the longsword any time (I alternated C&amp;T and sabre or even rapier), I had to win the fear of crossing because I had a shorter weapon and crossing was the only way to get close to my opponent with some sort of safety against the iron door (my pard fav. guard). You might try sparring with a single handed sword against the long to win this fear, of course the other party has more leverage so you'll need to learn to cross and uncross quickly. This is also great for learning to parry, because the longsword guy will strike at you twice before you can attack once, and retreating works for nothing here.
Carlo

[Jared L. Cass]

Matt, this is something we'll have to play with this weekend <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" /> One thought reguarding this "crossed" dilema...maybe for such actions to work, very aggressive attacks need to be launched. Lots of "centerline" closing actions perhaps? I'm thinking: crash in there (take the intiative), achieve the crossed swords, totally overwhelm the opponent (chase him mercilessly), and keep the band by doing what ever it takes befor using the winden techniques.

My experience isn't the greatest in reguards to swordsmanship, but I think the above process may work.

Jared L. Cass, Wisconsin, ARMA Associate

(edited to include more text)

[Guest]

Good comments Jared, it probably requires that you are very actively seeking to maintain the initiative and stay in the "Vor" as Ringeck urges.

[John_Clements]

Close in with pressure. Control his weapon and seek openings. He will respond in kind or else be struck.

JC

[Matt Bailey]

Matt: I feel your pain.
My attempts to come to the bind with the Five Strikes of the German school sometimes work and sometimes get me hit against an opponent who tends to favor voiding and countercutting. Of course, the nature of the sword simulators we use could have something to do it, I'm convinced all the blade-to-blade stuff works best with....blades.
Anyone out there have any obersvations on the German fight vrs. the "backpedeler"?

[Guest]

When crossed a good kick to the abdomen shocks the system nicely and loosens your opponent up and then go in for the bind.