Learn axe-play from half-sword?

[david welch]

If this has been covered somewhere else, I couldn't find it so please point me in the right direction

While reading the translation of Le Jeu de la Hache, it implies axe-play is best to be learned first and everything else derives from that.

After I read that, I noticed that while looking through Gladiatorie, Codex Wallerstien, and Lederi, the half-swording looks like axe-play, and in Lederi, I couldn't tell by the thumbnails if they were useing swords or axes!

So I have 2 questions really.

First, is half-swording just falling back on what they started with, the axe?

Second, if so, can the lack of reference material for axe-play be made up for in studying half-swording?

Thanks, David

[Matt Easton]

I assume you mean 'Fiore dei Liberi'? Anyway, his poleaxe is quite different to anyone elses (except Vadi who copied him), and is modelled on the longsword, mostly not halfsworded. In fact Fiore states quite clearly in the text when a poleaxe technique can also be done with the longsword.
Fiore's axe seems shorter than other sources, and he does not show to use the butt end, even though some of his axes are shown with butt-spikes ('le cou' in Le Jeu de la Hache).

I do not believe that halfswording comes from axe use - they just share some principles. There are art sources showing halfswording with one handed swords (eg. Froissart's Chroniques).

Matt

[joelthompson1]

I also believe that although axe and longsword share some techniques, one did not derive from the other. I think any weapon with a handle or blade long enough will fall into this catagory. Possibly the reasons for so little being written on axe play are: One, like the longbow, it is basically a commoner's tool and therefore not worth mentioning (in text written exclusively by nobles and religeous types) despite its advantages in battle. Two, the axe was a primary weapon in the early medieval period when almost no one was literate and few if any manuals were written on the art. Three: manuals on this technique may have been lost, destroyed, or merely not yet discovered.
Half-swording techniques will probably help a bit in axe use, but there is nothing like the real thing. Staff techniques will help, as will polearm techniques. But working and sparring with that axe will probably be the best teacher.


Joel

[Steven Blakely]

I am studying the axe myself and using le jeu de la hache. What is half swording anyway? and also i have run into a bit of a snagwhat part of the axe is the gros bout?

[Jake_Norwood]

Steven,

Half swording is, in short, when you choke up on the blade, usually with the off-hand, and use it like a poleaxe or short spear. It is primarily (but not exclusively) used for fighting against armor. Almost any manual will contain references to it. It is also called "the shortened sword."

Jake

[Allen Johnson]

One major difference is that you hack with the pole axe and you don't with the halfsword. Halfsword techniques mostly use winding and end in a thrust.

[Jaron Bernstein]

One major difference is that you hack with the pole axe and you don't with the halfsword. Halfsword techniques mostly use winding and end in a thrust.

Meyer talks about the staff being the base weapon for learning other poleaerms such as pike and halbard

[Brian Hunt]

Paulus Hector Mair has a very good section on the use of a pole axe or "murder axe" as he calls it.

all the best.

Brian Hunt
GFS

http://www.paulushectormair.com

[Jon Pellett]

'Gros bout' would literally mean "big end". So I think it means the head end of the axe. OTOH, Anglo seems to translate it as "butt".

Steve, are you working from a translation, or from the original French?

Uh, the original post in this thread is 5 years old.

Cheers