Postby John_Clements » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:25 am
That’s fascinating info. It will be good to see more on this. Every place at this time surely had its fencing schools and teachers and guilds (as Roger Ascham noted in 1545 how for fencing “almost in every town there is not only Masters to teach it…of art and school, but…which hath diligently and favorably written it” etc.).
But it’s really not that surprising such “longsword tournaments” would have taken place as late as 1775, since we know that such similar events took place in England and in Germany as late as the 1740s. However, I suspect that unless we see evidence concerning their blade types, their purpose, and their rules for allowable actions and targets, it's very likely these combats were otherwise those kind of infamous public “gladiatorial prize fight” spectacles, perhaps even more as sport by then rather than performance of traditional Renaissance martial skills. Had any older skills survived into the modern age they would have surely been recorded during the late 19th century craze of interest in historical fencing sparked by Castle-Hutton et al who traveled the region giving lectures and displays on their theories.
Also, it seems odd that the piece suggest that Galas is saying evidence for the oldest fencing guild or school as a "corporation of fencing masters" is from 1444. Dr. Sydney Anglo noted how in 1386 a school of arms that was attracting local youths already existed in Heidelberg (The Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe, p. 9) They were recorded again in 1415 as already being well established. It is also pretty well known that there are references in France to royal privileges being given to a group of Paris fencing masters in the 1200’s. Then of course, there is the infamous account of English suppression of early fencing teachers occurred in c. 1310 where “Master Roger le Skirmisour” was charged with keeping a “school of arms” (or de skirmeria) in London. But then, the question of terminology arises: what is the difference between a “guild” and a “school” or even if any Master of Defense was only a private teacher?
Anyway, it fascinating info. It’s odd though that the piece first quotes Galas as saying the fencing club dates to 1614, but then later saying that the guild originates in 1444. Did they form some sort of a club later after the guild? What is the difference between the two? It also quotes him as first saying these royal tournaments (by which I presume it means just one taken with legal approval, rather than fought before a sovereign) went on until “at least” the 1750s, but then later gives a definitive date of 1775 as the last. I'm left confused and wondering which is it?
JC
