Spear systems?

[Sam Nankivell]

Does anyone know of any spear systems in WMA? Not just side-notes to sword systems, but full spear systems.

[Stewart Sackett]

I don’t’ know that it’s really fair or accurate to talk about medieval & Renaissance weapon sets as distinct ‘systems’.

David Welch had good post describing the nature of HEMA & their likely training methods. He said:

“In modern combatatives, several of the top people are starting to outline their teaching strategies into terms of "hardware" and "software". This increases the ability to teach different things quickly, by decreasing the amount of different things you have to learn. One of the key parts to this is the ability to figure out similarities in use between weapons.

There is no doubt at all the old masters did this. For example, if someone learns half-swording he already has a good grounding in the use of a poll axe. All he has to do is make adjustment for the difference in hardware, but the same software runs both tools. In another example, Meyer says you do unarmed striking from what you learn in dagger... you just stab without holding a dagger. Both have the same basic software.”

…

“I believe the hardware/software idea is consistent throughout WMA. I have yet to see anything that looks like they tried to reinvent the wheel when they could just substitute a similar technique.”

The weapons were trained in a single, unified, system. If one weapon (the longsword) got more attention then others (such as the spear) it’s seems likely that this was because the former was the most versatile weapon.

[Sam Nankivell]

Good point. So what "software" would be best for learning how to use a spear?

I just don't get why there is so little written about the weapon when it was an extremely common weapon. Shouldn't there be more to it's technique than simply poking like mad.

[Martin Wallgren]

You could possibly find alot useful in the Poleaxe techniques of several of the masters, and some of the halfswording techniques. The there is staff stuff you could try. As for manuals I don´t recall seeing any "only-spears" sections.

[J. F. McBrayer]

You could possibly find alot useful in the Poleaxe techniques of several of the masters, and some of the halfswording techniques. The there is staff stuff you could try. As for manuals I don´t recall seeing any "only-spears" sections.

Fiore includes a section on spear on foot. See the Eleonora Litta and Matt Easton translation of the Getty Fior di Battaglia. The pictures are broken right now, but they're from the Novati anyway, which you should be able to find easily for yourself.

Vadi's section on spear is very short, but I suspect that's because when he gets to it, he's just shown aza and spada in arme, and the spear is pretty much the same.

I agree with Stewart Sackett quoting David Welch above. Fiore did not teach a sword system with side notes for other weapons, but a complete, consistent, and unified system for all weapons, in armour, and without. This is why, IMO, it's important to study not just the techniques shown by a particular master, but also to study according to their pedagogy, in as much as that's available to us.

[Mike Cartier]

i would personally consider meyers polearms to be Staff/ Halberd and Pike

The staff i have always considered staff/spear as it is a very point oriented staff perfectly suite to spear.

[Jon Pellett]

Does anyone know of any spear systems in WMA? Not just side-notes to sword systems, but full spear systems.

I can't think of any where the spear is the only or central weapon, but that doesn't mean they aren't full systems, even if the sword is the exemplar.

Was the short spear really such a dominant weapon by the Renaissance era? It was still around, but as a niche weapon together with the pike, lance, and various polearms (or am I mistaken)?

There's lots of spear-like polearm sources. I second Mike regarding Meyer's staff, it seems perfect for spear. There's also Silver and Swetnam for staff. For partisan (very spear-like), long spear/pike/lance, and spiedo (winged spear) there are Marozzo, Manciolino, and DiGrassi. Marozzo and Manciolino also have partisan and rotella (= spear and shield), which is cool. And there's the spear in Ringeck, Talhoffer and whatnot if you want to get all medieval.

Cheers

[Brian Hunt]

Paulus Hector Mair has an extesive section on both short staff and long staff. These easily transfer over to spear and lance since they are very point oriented. Plus in the instances where he discusses spears, javelins and lances the techniques he shows with them are no different that those shown with the staff.

all the best.

Brian Hunt
GFS

http://www.paulushectormair.com

[LafayetteCCurtis]

And then there'd be a difference between single combat techniques, which are likely to have been more refined and certainly more likely to get into the manuals, as opposed to massed battlefield techniques that probably got around more by oral channels than by organized schools. At least unti lthe development of standardized hand-to-hand combat drills, that is.