Wasters in Judicial Duels

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David_Knight
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Wasters in Judicial Duels

Postby David_Knight » Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:36 pm

Is there any evidence for the use of wasters as dueling weapons in instances where non-lethal force was prescribed, or were they relegated exclusively to a training environment?

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Brandon Paul Heslop
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Re: Wasters in Judicial Duels

Postby Brandon Paul Heslop » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:53 am

David_Knight wrote:Is there any evidence for the use of wasters as dueling weapons in instances where non-lethal force was prescribed, or were they relegated exclusively to a training environment?


Not that I know of. A duel was generally a pretty serious thing. Only one of you gets to walk away alive. The other gets carried away to a wooden box, as tiny devils drag his soul to Hell. :lol:

-B.
Thys beeth ye lettr yt stondÿ in hys sygte \
To teche . or to play . or ellys for to fygte...

"This [is] the letter (way,) [for] standing in his (the opponent's) sight \
[either] to teach, or to play, or else for fight..."

-Man yt Wol.

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Brian Hunt
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Postby Brian Hunt » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:49 am

Hi David,

I don't know of any judicial duels that were fought with wasters. There were the various tournements that were fought with batons and swords made out of whale bone, but these were not judicial duals. There were also the bridge battles of Venice that were fought with woodend weapons as well.

good luck in your research.

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David_Knight
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Postby David_Knight » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:16 pm

I am feverishly racing to finish the first draft of my research on judicial dueling procedure in the early Germanic legal codes (due Wednesday), so I cannot elaborate at the moment, but suffice to say that I have found instances where less-than-lethal weapons were statutorily prescribed (depending on the offense), as well as accounts of clubs and batons being used by the peasantry.

Based on this, I briefly wondered if wasters might also have been used, but dismissed the thought as highly unlikely after posting my question (though it never hurts to ask).

Brian, can you point me to any references? My focus is on the period from the barbarian migrations to shortly after the Norman Conquest. Gratias tibi!

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Brian Hunt
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Postby Brian Hunt » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:54 pm

Hi David,

look up anything you can find on Behourd style tournements. http://www.chronique.com/Library/Tourneys/behourds.htm http://www.aemma.org/misc/events/wmaw_2002/tourn_behourd.html

This article mentions the use of wooden weapons in judicial duels, but they are clubs. http://www.thearma.org/essays/wasters.htm

"Fighting with sticks or cudgels was an accepted form of combat for judicial duels in Medieval Europe. In the 15th century, Olivier de la Marche, for example, told of a judicial duel between two tailors fought with shield and cudgel. In his 1841, The History of Dueling, J. G. Millingen related a duel in 1455 at the French city of Valenciennes between two burghers using “knightly cudgels of equal length, and bucklers painted red”. (Millingen, Vol I, p 363). The town even furnished the combatants with instructors to teach them the use of the club and buckler. The early 19th century chronicler of duels J. P. Gilchrist related a 15th century statement that in duels among commoners, “The weapons allowed them are, batons, or staves…and a four-cornered leather target…[and] in France villeins only fought with the buckler and baton.”[3] Shakespeare even included a judicial combat fought with sticks between a common armorer and his apprentice in his, Henry the VI, Part 2. "

It also mentions a couple of other duels with wooden weapons as well.

Here is an article on the Venice Bridge Battles.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/BridgeWars.htm

Hope this jump starts you in the right direction.

Brian Hunt
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Shane Smith
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Postby Shane Smith » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:22 pm

Fiore shows fighting with cudgels as well I'm quite sure.
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