Spada da Zogho? - research question

[John_Clements]

I have a note about an Italian blunt called a Spada da Zogho (“practice sword”) but have no reference or citation for it. Can anyone help me find it???

It sounds like it might be a regional variation of a term from Italian fencing texts of the early 1500s which begin to refer to practice weapons called, spada da gioco, a “sword for play” (also called spada da mara, a rebated sword, as opposed to spada da filo, an edged sword.)

Fiore’s prologue of c.1409 (Getty edition) refers to ferri moladi (“blunted blades”) as being used in practicing, as opposed to a çugare a spade di taglio e di punta or sharply edged and pointed blades. Plus we all know about the Federschwerter (“feather-swords”) used for practice in many Fechtbuchs.

[BTW, I have a theory that these are all the same kind of Federschwerter and that even the English term foyle (from the French refouler) which later comes to mean fencing “foil” actually refers to a Federschwert.]

But a source for this Spada da Zogho is driving me nuts.

JC

[Brian Hunt]

Hi John,

that is a term from Fiore. If I remember correctly, zogho is a regional dialect of gioco or play. So Spada De Zogho means sword of play. As an asside, Arms and Armour sells one http://www.armor.com/train205.html, and it is reviewed here http://www.myarmoury.com/review_aa_zogho.html

hope this helps.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Kevin Ponzuoli]

Yes, quote, Zogho means "gioco", "play".

This is an archaic term from the dialect of Emilia Romagna also used by Achille Marozzo in his tecniques.

[John_Clements]

Thanks. Which Fiore edition then uses Zhogo over Gioco?

The next question to resolves will be whether these identical in form to Federschwerter.

[Matt Easton]

that is a term from Fiore.

No it is not.
Unless I am mistaken.
I don't remember seeing the expression in any historical text personally.

Matt

[Brian Hunt]

Hi Matt,

thanks for that, I had that written down in some old notes I was working from that I don't remember where I got that information from. I will make the correction so I don't accidently misleading info.

all the best.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Gianluca Zanini]

Hi John and All,

I had the same question when I saw the practise swords from arms&armour.
Zogho, zogi, zugadore, zugadori.
Play, plays, player and players.

Getty
4 RECTO

..... cognosca delli magistri zugadori e lli scolari da' zugadori e lli zugadori de' magistri e lo remedio del contrario ben che sempre lo contrario è posto dredo al remedio e talvolta lo remedio dredo o dredo tutti li soy zogi e di questo faremo chiareça.

Pisani dossi

Chè zoghi che se piglia de concordia, le prese se fa d'amore e non da ira.

"Zogho" means exactly"play", "tecnique","action" or "spar" and here above Fiore underline plays can be done with "agreement" (light sparring) or with anger (actual fight).
Player means "fighter" in a wider meaning as it is referred to both armed and unarmed system.

Indeed spada da zogo in the sense of waster or practise sword, i am afraid, is a modern creation, where zogho, "play", is misunderstood.
Fiore's zogho in the medieval meaning has nothing to do with something not-real or safe, like a game.
Zogho can employ different level of more or less controlled/free action.
In this sense spada da zogho , in the literary meaning, does not refer to a particular blade.
Blunted sword in the medieval italian are "ferri moladi"
(lit.grindered blades) as John mention above.
Therefore I could even be wrong, but Fiore would not use such an expression as every sword is for "play".

Sorry for my English

GZ