The ARMA and everyone else.

[Gianluca Zanini]

One can only imagine the sell on those without the means to validate credentials, or if not validate, at least question. It does begin to start to sound like a recent best seller about conspiracy...

Very interesting.

Thanks!

Sorry for the gossip post, but something had to be said.
We have been damaged for a long time and there is no way to get satisfaction even in the safest way, even with their rules and arms.
Lets consol myself with a literary suggestion:

"I Do not challenge a man I do not esteem, I'd rather prefer..."

[Matt Rovaris]

Ciao Gianluca,

Yes, we know the "slippery" side of Andrea.

Andrea, where did you get your certificate?

Ummm... you're attacking me.

No, I'm just asking... just want to know.

But you want to know because you think I attacked your organisation 10 years ago and now you're getting even.

No, I want to know because you say you're a master, you are "certifying" people as masters, and we all want to know where you get your authorisation to do so.

Well, are you denying that my students are good?

No, I'm asking you where you got your certificate. Did you get it from Le Scouezec?

Don't bring him into the discussion. He's an old chap.

Ummm... But I thought you said he was dead.

Yeah, yeah, I meant, he's dead. Now, that's even worse then. You're taking the mickey out of an old, dead man.

And he taught you fencing? How? From a Rascal or from a weegee board?

Now you're beinga a-sarcastic [strokes his beard] the lasta resorta of the hopelessa.

Ho-hum... Alright, Andrea, back to your certification....

Yes, my certification. Well, professional courtesy require that I don't tell...

Wait a minute... How about the professional courtesy to those who are actual fencing masters who spent thousands of Euros in genuine instruction?

Oh, but they are all phonies. They never dida the "striscia da terreno"... I am the only one, you know, my master was... oh, wait. I can't tell.

All right, Andrea. I smell a rat.

A rat? Now you're calling me a rat???? Oh, poor me... I'm being victimized... see, everyone hates me, envies me, because of how darn good I am... Because I showed up in a kilt... because I got my butt kicked by someone... because I couldn't hold a proper sabre guard for over 10 seconds... because I didn't know that Marozzo had prese in his 2-handed sword section... because I am a master but am honour bound to keep a lid on where I got my certificate... because... because everyone hates me... poor me, waaaaahhhh

(Other guy gives up.)

[Matt Rovaris]

I've finally read the whole thread. Wow, that was a marathon.

Anyway, the only thing I want to emphasise to J. Clements and friends is that "Sinclair" is most definitely not the carrier of nineteenth century fencing practice. This is an area where we still have a reasonably-close tradition, which is taught regularly in schools all over Europe, and from what I hear, even in a couple Unis in the USA.

So, Mr. Clements, please rest assured that "Sinclair" is no Radaellian sabre master or any some such. Nor is he a reincarnation of Louis Rondelle or M. Parise.

Cheers

Matt

[Francisco Uribe]

Thank you Matt and Gianluca,

There is no real organization that have ever tested nor granted master titles to any of the so-called maestros.
All they've been doing is syaing that they were recognized as such by dead people (without having the slightest proof of it (nor the mastery of their deceaced teachers (Obscure and unknown characters all).
And even if their "fencing credentials" were for real, they would lack any application to the rennaisance and medieval fighting styles

Interestingly this last idea has been supported by Sean Hayes, who is a certified maestro himself. Hayes did test in frot of a committe in a public setting. jum!
I wonder if Sean Hayes still go around with this crowd and he does... why?
For what I read, he would seems to be against this type of scam.

Just a bunch of liars!

[Gianluca Zanini]

Thank you Matt and Gianluca,
Interestingly this last idea has been supported by Sean Hayes, who is a certified maestro himself. Hayes did test in frot of a committe in a public setting. jum!
I wonder if Sean Hayes still go around with this crowd and he does... why?

I had the pleasure to meet him 3 years ago and I can tell you that we are alike minded on the regards!


GZ

[Paul Macdonald]

Dear All,

Once again, words are being taken at face value without the individuals accused or full facts even being Truly known, and as such, new aspersions are cast and characters darkened without a second thought.

How many here have actually met, listened to, trained with and really known Maestro Sinclair?

To do so is a far better way to know and judge a man, for what man bases his reason and knowing upon rumour alone?

I have seen and heard enough baseless rumour on this thread as that is exactly what has been levelled here at Maestro Sinclair.

A couple of FACTS Gentlemen -

The Le Scouezec on Wikipedia was NOT the Master of Maestro Sinclair. Yes, it is possible that two individuals might exist in this World carrying the same surname. As a Macdonald, I know this all too well

Mo. Sinclair carries a little more than an `infatuation` with Gaelic culture by actually having Scottish relatives. (That and the fact that he is a Northern Italian, an original Gaelic culture in itself)

These speak Truth of just a couple of many false rumours perpetuated by a man who has never even met Mo. Sinclair!

That says a lot about validity of judgement cast.

Someone mentioned about this being a `gossip post` and these posts are no more than just that!

Baseless accusations, and moreso, complete falsehoods levelled at a professional man of integrity who works for the Art above all.

Unless you have the Heart to face a man and accept him for who he Truly is before you, then casting or accepting false words about him is a Lie to yourself as well as others.

And I`ll stand for no lies, here or anywhere.

Yours Very Truly,

Macdonald

[Matt Rovaris]

Mr. Mc Donald,

I don't entirely fault your wanting to be a man of honour by sticking by your friend. But your answer is, again, evasive and bypasses the main point by questioning the motives of the inquirers.

If someone makes the claim to possess credentials, be these maestro, medical doctor, minister, Ph. D, or what have you, he immediately places the burden of proof on himself. This is self-evident even to middle-schoolers, Mr. Mc Donald. For others to ask where these credentials are is natural, and is not slanderous, until these are produced. Try go to an exclusive club in London and pass yourself for something without having credentials, and see how quickly you'll be out the door on your bum.

And this the main point, and has been for 15 long pages in this thread:

WHERE ARE "SINCLAIR'S" CREDENTIALS?

It should be an easy one. Yet, gor blimey, it seems like it's easier to bring back the dead than to get this simple question answered.

This defies all logic and corroborates the strong suspicions of those who think that, no matter how experienced a teacher he may be, he lied about his credentials. Once a liar, always a liar, and there's no baser mud-pit for a gentleman's good name to be in. Lord, if it was me I would do anything before I dug myself any deeper into the pit by defending the indifensible and being so bloody brazen about it all.

Until there are no credentials, there is no maestro, full stop. Doing it any other way is cheapening the title, a title which "Sinclair" can go about getting letitimately any day, if he'd bother to attend a school that offers it. But telling fibs and expecting others to believe them and defend them is horse pucky, and it insults everyone's intelligence. Hardly a way to behave among gentlemen.

As for you, you seem like a decent chap, so here's some friendly advice. Admit the obvious, or at least distance yourself from the obvious, and run on your own skills, since you sound like someone who is earnest about pursuing your martial goals.

And if you really are a true friend and not just a sycophant, sit down with "Sinclair" and advise him to come clean. But breaking lance after lance against the windmills of an obvious fraudulent claim makes you look as bad as the man in question and soils your good name by association.

If this doesn't convince you, look at it another way: it seems like everyone both here and over in the States knows the truth. You either don't, and should get with the program rather than continuing your Don Quixotesque act, or you do and collude with a known liar.

And since we are at it, let's see if it says "Sinclair" on his passport, or is that classified information as well? I wager 10 to 1 that's a fibbie too. Any takers?

[Gianluca Zanini]

Mr.Mcdonald,

......having Scottish relatives. (That and the fact that he is a Northern Italian, an original Gaelic culture in itself)

I am too from north of Italy, so what?
"An original Gaelic culture itself", besides being, with all due respect, a very supercial and weak historical statement, it is an assumption from which you want to draw the not pertinent conclusion that if I live in Italy, pardon northen Italy, and if I have a remote relative in scottish, I am authorised to trasform every sword I bought in my forefathers' sword?

These speak Truth of just a couple of many false rumours perpetuated by a man who has never even met Mo. Sinclair!

Many people wish to meet him but it is not an easy task.
but many people in Italy met him, someone even with common interest.
Where is Lorenzo, once member IMAF, nephew of Master Manusardi now?
Or Marco in Bologna where is he now?

Unless you have the Heart to face a man and accept him for who he Truly is before you,

And how Truly was behind ?
The weastern-arts newsgroup is public and I can give you a link to read HOW TRULY he was behind us, but if you are still doubtful I could post the antecedent letter of the invitation for IMAF and relative response...


Gianluca Zanini

[Andrea Lupo Sinclair]

Dear All,

- The man on Wikipedia is not the man I followed as a Teacher long time ago (who was not a Frenchman although living for a while in Brittany).
- I didn’t met Mr. Mondini in 1993, but in 1997, and it is around that period that the studies about western systems of the people Mr. Zanini is mentioning, were starting, not before as he claims.
- I never introduced myself as a “Breton Wrestler”. I was interested in that wrestling – that in the past I would have liked to study - and I had a manual of that system which I wanted to study together with Mr. Mondini, a very kind person experienced in unarmed Martial Arts.
- Mr. Mondini never threw me on the floor (we never fought, we trained together), nor I had ribs damaged. I got an injury to the knee in a different moment, and simply because of an accident with another person – rather clumsy – during a training in that period. Mr. Mondini was present.
- I never charged Mr. Mondini for any fee.
- I never dressed up as a Scot. My first kilt was a gift of M. Paul MacDonald in 2005.
- I have Scottish and Swiss relatives, not an “infatuation” for Celtic or Gaelic culture.
- My name is Andrea Lupo, and “Sinclair” is connected to my mothers’ family – which bears also other family names as many old European families - and it is in fact my second surname and used as “nom de plume”. Is this a big problem for somebody if I use it and I am known also with that name?
- I have never been re-enacting dressed up as a Scot. As a researcher in Med/Ren systems, I have been also frequenting re-enactments – for a short time – to know if I could learn more. There, I was dressed up in a Italian Renaissance fashion. And again, is this a serious problem?
- During a demo in Verona (yes I had a Scottish scarf that evening ... ) where I was demonstrating studies on a Hand and a Half Sword, my blade broke. That blade was not something from my “forefathers”, nor I have ever said it was. It was simply an old blade I had from my personal past. And it was not at all a Del Tin.

These points just to inform that Mr Gianluca Zanini and Mr. “Matt Rovaris” have not said the truth.

It is noticeable that the level of "criticism" in my regards seems to be only these petty "gossips" (as admitted by Mr. Zanini himself).

Ity is interesting as well, that they have never met me – nor they were present at the facts here above reported - and it is also interesting that the truth about some of these facts has already been said to other members of the group of Mr. Zanini here in Italy.

But it seems that Mr. Zanini didn’t care about those explanations, and goes on repeating this stuff somewhere else. Interesting that at the same time he plays the “polite one” in direct talk with me on another Forum in Italian!

Mr. Matt “Rovaris” if this is his true name, should deserve very few attention: he admit he never met me, but he dares to write a ridiculous mockery that demonstrate the level of seriousness of his “criticism”.


The ridiculous statement about the “challenges”: we (FISAS) since 2001 perform a rapier tournament opened to everybody. None of the people talking here have ever been in that tournament.
Recently there was a contact to think to a new tournaments amongst groups in Italy, but after such a garbage thrown by some members of one of these groups, I do not think there will be a productive follow up.
We (FISAS) do not accept to be forced to stand such a perverted sense of “honour” as the one often expressed by certain people, renowned here in Italy amongst several Martial Artists for their attitude.

Oh, they are surely free to be as they like, but they are not interesting for us.


The connections between me, M. Paul MacDonald, M. Martinez and other individuals and groups are based on experience, knowledge, humanity, reciprocal respect, that are the only qualities we recognize as honourables.

Whether you like it or not, there are different way to follow the path to the European Martial Art, and we share one of these ways.
A better search about what was the real situation of lineages in Europe will show to everybody that the “official” academies were representing only a very limited number of teachers and lineages, and not every teacher had official titles.
(Eugenio Pini, for example, never had an official title of fencing master).

Within the IMAF we use the title Master at Arms exactly to make clear the strong differences we have with the “institutional” titles.

So, if people don’t want to believe in our lineages, free to do it. Look for other environments. A more accurate search in the History will show them the truth, if they really want to know it.
We do not need to "convince" anybody.

If certain people do not want to call me or others “Maestro” believe me, I do not care.

As a note, I have never claimed any traditional lineage of Medieval/Renaissance/Baroque styles. The tradition to which I refer to is about the last old schools of certain Italian styles of the late XVIII and XIX century.
Nor I have ever said that “we can study early styles better than other people”.
I stated the importance of a proper study of theory, forms and terminology and certain classical basis (mostly for Italian late “rapier”), but nothing more.


Then, about ARMA: I have nothing against it. I disagree with some of the interpretations, styles and approach, as anybody freely can do, but I have a direct personal knowledge of the ARMA only from the SSI event in 2000 in Houston when I only had a polite talk with Mr. Clementini about the Sidesword and Early Rapier.

Therefore, any of the insulting statements of certain ARMA members here, are thrown out of the blue with no real reasons – at least no reasons I know – but surely do not give an image of correctness to this organisation, that I think has members who do not deserve to see how their group is lowered by these attitudes


To conclude, for any further information about me – if this is of a real interest – you can contact me in private, and check my curriculum at

http://www.scherma-tradizionale.com/Englishteach.htm

where you can see what kind of connections I have had with the Sport Fencing academies here in Italy, and enjoy some of the videos of what is the fencing we do.

This is my first and last post about this topic and I suggest to M. Paul MacDonald to do the same as me. Thank you Paul, but do not waste any time here.

I am sorry for most of the writers of this Forum that I suppose are not interested in this flame and had to suffer it.


Maybe one day some of you will come in Italy. He/She will be hosted with courtesy and will see how we work.

Best Wishes for Your Practice.

[Michael Eging]

I have just done a quick look at the sites you linked to Mr. Sinclair. Thank you for the links.

Since I can't read Italian and the sites have limited English, I do have a question for something I saw on the pages that struck me.

In the pictures pages, I saw people working out with what looked like a mixture of moodern (sport fencing) weapons and historical representation weapons. In particular, someone was cutting with a sport weapon into someone with the more historical weapons. What is being illustrated by this mixture of equipment? Is there a reason for mixing modern sport weaponry with renaissance weaponry?

I am curious as I had not seen this before.

Thanks.

Mike

[Matt Rovaris]

Within the IMAF we use the title Master at Arms exactly to make clear the strong differences we have with the “institutional” titles.

Oki doki. So now, we finally have some clarity, although we need to do a little translating from your all-over-the-place post, aided by the fact that you're still concealing your alleged master's identity. (And why? WHY?)

So, John, and every ARMA group leader, as well as anyone out there who darn well pleases: feel free to "use the title Master at Arms" to "make clear the strong differences" you "have with the institutional titles." Don't even need to know the weapon you're claiming mastery of, just make sure a couple of your buddies go along, and they can be masters too!

After all, you are not institutional sport-fencers, institutional reenactors, institutional Uni fencing students or institutional followers of a living tradition worth not keeping as secret as Mr Lupo so obstinately does his. Apparently that's the new standard for bestowing a title such as this upon yourselves, a title previously reserved for "institutional" followers of an above-board tradition.

For the record, I did sit in not one but two of your courses, Mr. Lupo. I know you, my club REALLY knows you, but evidently the fact that you don't remember us means we must not exist. Sort of like your credentials.

Respectfully,

Matt Rovaris-Wogerbauer-McGregor-La Poupliniere-Mitzubayashi-Singh-Ahmadi-Kim-Doulepov-Kilrain-Dancing Bear (just to keep all the bases covered, in case I have foreign relatives and I want a new "nom de plume").

[Andrea Lupo Sinclair]

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:08 am (page 14)

I've never met him nor Mr. Mc Donald, but I can tell you that "Sinclair"...

Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:23 pm (page 15)

For the record, I did sit in not one but two of your courses, Mr. Lupo. I know you...,

[Matt Rovaris]

Mr. Lupo,

My honest mistake. I was referring to M. Loriega, and while writing the post, erased part of the phrase containing his name, but not the whole phrase.What I meant to say is that I do not know him or M. Mc Donald, but I do know you. Edit on the way.

PS: I do wish you came clean. I know your dedication and the quality of your students, but you can't go on claiming credentials if you can't show them. There is no shame in not having credentials, since virtually nobody does in European martial arts. There's only shame in keeping up a story that you are not willing to back up, looking like a fraud and making your students like Mc Donald do the same as a result.

Mr. Lupo: it's the right thing to do.

[Andrea Lupo Sinclair]

Sir, no jokes.

It is clear to whoever has a bit of intelligence (reading the original message) that you were not referring to Loriega in the original text but to me.


Original message:

What is "Sinclair's" real fencing background? Upon my honour, I don't know (nobody knows) but for certain, he is not a modern fencing master, since no official governing body in Europe has heard his name. We just heard that he's been able to sell his persona to some friends in the USA, and that with these friends, he created an organization that can issue master certificates in historical fencing. So, he will tell you he is a master, but never say how he got his certification. All very legittimate, as you can see.

I've never met him nor Mr. Mc Donald, but I can tell you that "Sinclair" is a fraud, and is well-known in Europe for being that. To judge from his posts, Mc Donald is a victim of the circumstances, perhaps guilty of excessive trust for his friends.

I have never heard of Lorriega, so I can't give my opinion on him.

New edition:

As for the other gentlemen mentioned in this post, I've never met Mr. Loriega nor Mr. Mc Donald, but I can tell you that "Sinclair" is a fraud, and is well-known in Europe for being that. To judge from his posts, Mc Donald is a victim of the circumstances, perhaps guilty of excessive trust for his friends.

I have never heard of Lorriega, so I can't give my opinion on him.

Obviously, you can now choose to completely re-edit your past message, just to change all your statements, and make them to fit to your new version, huh?

I saved all the originals, Sir.

PS: I do wish you came clean. I know your dedication and the quality of your students

Ah, you could have written this also before you were got in your contradictions, do not you think?

It is very easy to insult, attack, use strong words, and now editing a message and suddenly becoming a friendly communicative man giving advices.

[Matt Rovaris]

I have openly said I would edit that particular part of my post. Can you even read plain English?

Mr. Lupo,

My honest mistake. I was referring to M. Loriega, and while writing the post, erased part of the phrase containing his name, but not the whole phrase.What I meant to say is that I do not know him or M. Mc Donald, but I do know you. Edit on the way.

Upon my honour, he's found his red herring. Mr Lupo: believe what you want.

I do know you, I don't know Mr. Loriega or Mr. Mc Donald. That's what I meant to say.

You, on the other hand, won't come clean regarding your credentials and attack Gian Luca and me instead, proving my sarcastic post was totally correct.

We: Where are your credentials?

You: you are attacking me.

Let me turn this around on you: it's clear to anyone with a shred of intelligence that you claim fraudulent credentials, and that you don't care a whit about dragging into the mud anyone like Mr. Mc Donald who trusted you in good faith. Nice, really nice. Great example of the chivalric virtues you pretend to teach.

You lost this one, Mr. Lupo, show some cajones and give it up already. The more you try to claw your way out of it, the deeper into it you dig yourself. Give it up. Come clean. If you still have a shred of integrity in you.

Rovaris