Books to read?

[Steve Fitch]

Where should I be starting?

What suggested reading materials. etc?

Thanks!

[Craig Peters]

Where should I be starting?

What suggested reading materials. etc?

Thanks!

http://www.thearma.org/wheretostart.htm

http://www.thearma.org/reading.htm

[s_taillebois]

Might also read Terry Brown's "English Martial Arts". Not necessarily as a fencing manual/fechtbuch, because this book only provides a brief introduction. But Brown (in this book) does a very good job in explaining the attitudes/values which related to fencing and staff within the original context.

David Lindholm's "Fighting with the Quarterstaff" good for staff and crossing the simularities between staff and longsword/bastard sword.

Toblers "Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship" useful in part because photos are somewhat clearer to read than period illustrations (1380's to about 1480's...after 1500 or so the drawing style is essentially 'modern'). Although , this book has the inherent limitations of this type of format.

And as M. Peters has noted, the ARMA gentry have quite a few essays and period images, manuals on line.

As soon as it's possible, make a pell of some manner.

[Jeffrey Hull]

If you want a good transcription, translation & interpretation of Renaissance German longsword fencing

Sigmund Ringeck's Knightly Art of the Longsword
David Lindholm
Paladin Press
That covers Liechtenauer-tradition Bloszfechten (unarmoured fencing) -- plus blade-sharpening and test-cutting.

Sigmund Ringeck's Knightly Arts of Combat
David Lindholm
Paladin Press
That covers Liechtenauer-tradition Harnischfechten (armoured fencing) -- plus lots of Ringen (wrestling), and some spear and sword & buckler.

Lindholm's works regarding Ringeck are superior to the others out there. Perhaps not perfect (whose are), perhaps not in entire agreement with everybody (and at times I differ with him), but his works are much better for that subject than the rest, they are the most martially sound by comparison.

Do not rely on the interpretive works of Tobler, his are weak.

[s_taillebois]

M. Fitch,

Might also consider taking from a variety of other sources-including the more accurate posters on various web video sites. There's a contingent in Offenbach Germany, who appear fairly precise, and are very aware of economy of movement.

The more operative thing, is starting to practice. Inherently any fencing manual/fechtbuch has the disadvantage of being a static presentation, however good the integrated research. Plus, one's own physical abilities and nature play a major role. Accordingly, with some practice a style suited to one's nature will emerge...mayhaps it may be better to study several manuals and let that synthesis emerge than worry about holding rigidly to a particular manual, or favored interpretion of an old master.
To some degree, even with highly regarded researchers such as Lindholm, Brown, Tobler, or M. Clement's and others of such august company and dedication-there's a certain point of necessary conjecture. And much more of that condition, with those of us who are less proficient than they. This is, after all, a dead art which has been blessed with a resurgance...even with the best research and efforts there'll be a point where some subtleties will be missed. A few centuries tend to have that effect...

[Steve Fitch]

I am an active Muay Thai instructor. I have also taken kali, and Kendo.

There are a couple of fencing clubs where I live....?

[Shane Smith]

You can do no better than get a copy of John Clements original work "Medieval Swordsmanship" from Paladin Press. It's still a great resource for new and aspiring practitioners.

[s_taillebois]

M. Fitch,

No insult was intended about your skills, but alas, communicating through the ether sometimes is inherently vague. So apologies if my comments had an unintended meaning.
The situation of having other martial training prior to becoming involved in the resurrection of the old Renn arts, is relearning or unlearning patterns which aren't applicable. Epee/foil for example is good for one or two of the four grounds (distance and timing). But is more or less useless in regards to the use of the very different implements of RMA....for example, I've had it creep in at times when doing RMA...the effect of which is bloody weird.
No fencing clubs excepting Foil near my location. But as stylized as they are, at least its a discipline. It seems some of the RMA clubs/ organizations do have a tendancy to hairy clothing and unearned (and irrelevent) aristocratic titles. Which probably has little of value to offer, excepting obtuse entertainment. (I'd wonder how many know amongst the new immediate aristocracy, about the past occasions when people wearing knights chains, tonsures and such, were beaten to death with broken mill stones?)

[Jeffrey Hull]

You can do no better than get a copy of John Clements original work "Medieval Swordsmanship" from Paladin Press. It's still a great resource for new and aspiring practitioners.

I definitely second Shane's suggestion of:

Medieval Swordsmanship
John Clements
Paladin Press

It is the user-friendly manual for the modern martial artist who seriously wants to get into European swordsmanship.

[ßradTimmins]

Hi Steve,

Good to hear of more Canadians joining in! I'm also new to WMA, but I definitely recommend Sigmund Ringeck's Knightly Art of the Longsword (Paladin Press) as Jeffrey Hull mentioned. I'm finding it enormously helpful in this early stage of learning.

And if you're ever in the Vancouver area, bring your waster
Brad

[Steve Fitch]

Hi Steve,

Good to hear of more Canadians joining in! I'm also new to WMA, but I definitely recommend Sigmund Ringeck's Knightly Art of the Longsword (Paladin Press) as Jeffrey Hull mentioned. I'm finding it enormously helpful in this early stage of learning.

And if you're ever in the Vancouver area, bring your waster
Brad

Great! Thanks!!

I will look you up for sure. Right now...I travel to Vancouver quite a bit for business.

[John_Clements]

You can do no better than get a copy of John Clements original work "Medieval Swordsmanship" from Paladin Press. It's still a great resource for new and aspiring practitioners.

Well, thanks for the support there, Shane. but seriously, my early work reflects what I knew back in the early 90s (and even then not all of it). My medieval book, though very influential, contains a lot of flaws (i.e., on stances, cuts, & terminology) and misses a lot of material uncovered in the years following its publication. It's still a good primer, yes, and definitely holds up, and contains plenty that no other sources do (especially on sword forms, pole arms vs. swords, and sword & shield), but you yourself certainly know that there is much more beyond it that we currently teach and train in. As I have been saying for some time, I would not recommend my own books now without reference to our site's additional material here.

JC

[Steve Fitch]

You can do no better than get a copy of John Clements original work "Medieval Swordsmanship" from Paladin Press. It's still a great resource for new and aspiring practitioners.

Well, thanks for the support there, Shane. but seriously, my early work reflects what I knew back in the early 90s (and even then not all of it). My medieval book, though very influential, contains a lot of flaws (i.e., on stances, cuts, & terminology) and misses a lot of material uncovered in the years following its publication. It's still a good primer, yes, and definitely holds up, and contains plenty that no other sources do (especially on sword forms, pole arms vs. swords, and sword & shield), but you yourself certainly know that there is much more beyond it that we currently teach and train in. As I have been saying for some time, I would not recommend my own books now without reference to our site's additional material here.

JC

Hi John!

I have been reading and watching vids on the ARMA site. The members here have also been a great help....and friendly! I have heard many great things on your book and will start there. I am trying to make it to seminars, and have had many invites to train with people in Ottawa and Toronto.

[Shane Smith]

You can do no better than get a copy of John Clements original work "Medieval Swordsmanship" from Paladin Press. It's still a great resource for new and aspiring practitioners.

Well, thanks for the support there, Shane. but seriously, my early work reflects what I knew back in the early 90s (and even then not all of it). My medieval book, though very influential, contains a lot of flaws (i.e., on stances, cuts, & terminology) and misses a lot of material uncovered in the years following its publication. It's still a good primer, yes, and definitely holds up, and contains plenty that no other sources do (especially on sword forms, pole arms vs. swords, and sword & shield), but you yourself certainly know that there is much more beyond it that we currently teach and train in. As I have been saying for some time, I would not recommend my own books now without reference to our site's additional material here.

JC

I think you sell your early work too short John. I know that many of our interpretations have changed since the blue book, but the most fundamental concepts and basic principles were pretty well worked out in it's pages. I still read it cover to cover from time to time and I manage to pick at least one new tidbit out of it.

I really think that we who have been around a while forget how little so many people know about our craft and we rush to get them started off with books that are more suitable for intermediates than for neophytes. Intermediate books do look like beginner stuff to us...on the other hand, they can be frustratingly obtuse for a complete newbie. How can they grasp Master Cuts if they don't know how to hold a sword or stand first?

I'm going to keep recommending your MS book because I do believe it's a very good work for beginners and I'll even tell folks that you think I shouldn't

[Ben Michels]

I think you sell your early work too short John. I know that many of our interpretations have changed since the blue book, but the most fundamental concepts and basic principles were pretty well worked out in it's pages. I still read it cover to cover from time to time and I manage to pick at least one new tidbit out of it.

I really think that we who have been around a while forget how little so many people know about our craft and we rush to get them started off with books that are more suitable for intermediates than for neophytes. Intermediate books do look like beginner stuff to us...on the other hand, they can be frustratingly obtuse for a complete newbie. How can they grasp Master Cuts if they don't know how to hold a sword or stand first?

I'm going to keep recommending your MS book because I do believe it's a very good work for beginners and I'll even tell folks that you think I shouldn't

I have to second this. Before I found ARMA I had gotten Tobler's German Longsword book and it was a bit overwhelming for someone that knew nothing about this. I didn't get your book until I found this website 6 months later and wished I would have seen it first, even with the changes.