Opinion on striking

[Jonathan Coupe]

I have seen illustrations from Paulus H. Mair that indicate open palmed punching to the face and throat..

A palm strike? I'd been wondering if this had been known in Europe before being imported in recent times. Is it really a good technique for getting to the throat though?

[carlo arellano]

I do it all the time on people wearing fencing masks right at eye level. It works as a good lever snapping the head back and obscuring vision long enough to get my grapple in.

[Jonathan Coupe]

I do it all the time on people wearing fencing masks right at eye level. It works as a good lever snapping the head back and obscuring vision long enough to get my grapple in.

Possibly the palms apparently aimed at the throat were aimed at the chin, either as a knockout blow or as a helmet-wobbler?

[Jeffrey Hull]

Check out the "horizontal stances" in Wallerstein. They all start with something about freeing one hand and "go around with him for a while". "Going around" isn't just pushing and pulling. It's using knees, ellbow, that free hand, headbutting, and anything else you like, to beat the heck out of the guy. That creates the time and space needed to execute the throw.

Excellent observation.

My copy of Bart's book is residing elsewhere now, so please remind me:

Does the context of "freeing one hand" tend to refer to a starting clinch with foe that you get out of; to aggressive attempt at grapple / trap by foe that you get out of; or does it vary?

[Jeff Hansen]

Check out the "horizontal stances" in Wallerstein. They all start with something about freeing one hand and "go around with him for a while". "Going around" isn't just pushing and pulling. It's using knees, ellbow, that free hand, headbutting, and anything else you like, to beat the heck out of the guy. That creates the time and space needed to execute the throw.

Excellent observation.

My copy of Bart's book is residing elsewhere now, so please remind me:

Does the context of "freeing one hand" tend to refer to a starting clinch with foe that you get out of; to aggressive attempt at grapple / trap by foe that you get out of; or does it vary?

Where specifically noted as a horizonal stance they are from the clinch. However my notes indicate that at least a couple of plates show what appears to be some form of one of the stances used as a counter.(my copy of the codex is on loan at the moment)

[LafayetteCCurtis]

I do it all the time on people wearing fencing masks right at eye level. It works as a good lever snapping the head back and obscuring vision long enough to get my grapple in.

Possibly the palms apparently aimed at the throat were aimed at the chin, either as a knockout blow or as a helmet-wobbler?

Not necessarily. I remember using a palm strike to the face for atemi (set-up/distraction) in an aikido practice session and getting a little vigorous so that I both missed the original target and actually struck with some force rather than pulling the blow just before it landed. It got into my partner's throat and left him stumbling and coughing for a couple of minutes after that. A full-powered, intentional blow to the throat would have caused some rather horrible effects.

(So I suspect Mair really knew what he was talking about when he showed such strikes.)

[Jonathan Coupe]

I do it all the time on people wearing fencing masks right at eye level. It works as a good lever snapping the head back and obscuring vision long enough to get my grapple in.

Possibly the palms apparently aimed at the throat were aimed at the chin, either as a knockout blow or as a helmet-wobbler?

Not necessarily. I remember using a palm strike to the face for atemi (set-up/distraction) in an aikido practice session and getting a little vigorous so that I both missed the original target and actually struck with some force rather than pulling the blow just before it landed. It got into my partner's throat and left him stumbling and coughing for a couple of minutes after that. A full-powered, intentional blow to the throat would have caused some rather horrible effects.

(So I suspect Mair really knew what he was talking about when he showed such strikes.)

Palm strikes are powerful, yes. I just think that fitting the hand *into* the throat in that position is difficult. I do have large hands, however, and possibly all my enemies have small throats.