Is This Portuguese Influence Armor Style?

[Sripol Asanasavest]

I realized this is a little off topic, but I found these pictures and wanted a little more info from someone who is familiar with European armors. If you look at the picture, the armor she is wearing does seem like it might have been influenced by the Portuguese. Do you think so? I know at the time period, which I don't know the exact date, I do know the Portuguese were present in Ayutthaya, Siam, and they could have influenced the way Ayutthayian made their armors and the way they use firearms. Anyway, look at the pictures closely and tell me what you think?

Another one:

And another one:


Thank you all very much for your time!

[Brandon Paul Heslop]

Well, there's nothing specifically "Portugese" about the armour examples you have provided. Were similart styles of armour prevelant in Portgual? Yes. However, they were prevalent across Western Europe.

http://www.beautifuliron.com/images/DiagramArmour4.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaulders

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulds_(plate_armour)

...So, in answer to your question, they are European-influenced.

-B.

[Benjamin Smith]

If what you are asking is "Is the form of plate armor shown here, derived from, based off of, or inspired by European Armor?" the answer is probably yes because Japanese plate armor with single piece breastplates didn't appear until after their contact with Europeans, however, I don't think that this should be over-emphasized, it would probably have been the next logical stage in their development of armor had they not had contact with Europe, but that's just speculation of course.

[LafayetteCCurtis]

The second image looks convincingly like an example of Thai armor that had been heavily influenced by European presence in the area--from the look of the cuirass, it might have been bought outright from European traders, many of whom were knoen to have carried arms and armor as important items of trade. But I can't help thinking that the other two armors look more like fantasy armors than something that Siamese generals would have worn at that time. The shapes are too European for them to be European-influenced local armor, but the decoration look too local for them to be off-the-shelf European armor. It might just be possible, however, that they were given to local Siamese craftsmen to decorate after they had been bought from European traders.

[LafayetteCCurtis]

because Japanese plate armor with single piece breastplates didn't appear until after their contact with Europeans,

Mmm...the examples posted are Siamese, not Japanese. However, I certainly agree with you that:

however, I don't think that this should be over-emphasized, it would probably have been the next logical stage in their development of armor had they not had contact with Europe, but that's just speculation of course.

I also think the Japanese would have reached that stage anyway without European interference. The European contact, though, probably played an important part in showing the Japanese that such ideas could work, therefore speeding the Japanese development up on that path.

[Sripol Asanasavest]

The pictures are from historical movies not fantasy if anyone is wondering.

[LafayetteCCurtis]

It's easy to name historical movies that display many, many examples of inaccurate or even pure fantasy armors--Gladiator, for example, or Braveheart, or A Knight's Tale. So, even though the armors you've posted come from the props of a historical movie, you should not automatically assume that they historically existed. They do seem better constructed than most of the stuff out there, though.

BTW, are they from Suriyothai?

[Sripol Asanasavest]

I know what you mean abuot it being fantasy because the Siamese tend to go overboard when it comes to decorating the palaces, temples, clothings, and armors with design and art. That is pretty common actually. It is said in the Ayutthaya palaces, before it was burned down by the Burmese, you could see gold on every wall, hence it seems like a fantasy stuff, but I assure that's how Siamese architecture and culture was like. From the research I've done, these two movies are pretty accurate in term of clothings and reconstructing the scene of the time period. They pour a lot of money into the research and reconstructing ancient cities; they try to be exact right down the minute details.

[LafayetteCCurtis]

By "fantasy design" I wasn't pointing to the gold decorations. I'm quite aware of some rather over-the-top gilded decorations that are still historical nevertheless, in both Western and Eastern forms of armor. My doubts were rather about the shape of the pauldrons; I'm not sure that I've ever seen main shoulder plates shaped like those in the first and third pictures (though I might be wrong) while the third picture has shoulder lames with medieval-style scalloped edges that don't really look as if they match the otherwise Renaissance feel of the armor.

Perhaps you could try asking this question in the myArmoury forum ( http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/ ), which has a more hoplological focus than the martial-art-centered ARMA forum.

[Sripol Asanasavest]

The time period is only 400 hundred years ago, so that would be around the 1600's.