Fiore's sarcasm

[Guest]

This thread is related to Sully's post in the Charron test cutting thread, where he mentioned the elephant as a symbol for fortitudo.
My impression is that Fiore in some of his verses communicates his boldness and ability with sarcasm (which is very common in Northern Italy as I've said elsewhere), he is not spoofing, he is admonishing those who would dare to fight against him or someone like him of the fact that they have no chance.
"Io son maestro della lotta e delle brazza dell'inimico fò una frotta" is very sarcastic coupled with the picture, if you dare to engage with me, I'll go away bringing your arms with me.
The impression Fiore gives is that of a bold and cruel warrior who would laugh into your face, grab your sword and beat the hell out of you, with a particular liking for snapping articulations. He was proud of his destructive skill and seeing him acting on the battlefield might be a shocking experience to our xxi cent. eyes.

[Matt Easton]

Hehehe - I agree Carlo - My favourite example is in the one-handed sword part where he says to the three assailants something like "you are all bad in the art, and your actions have no place in words!" and "even if you were one hundred, I would defeat you all if you came one at a time". <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />:):)

Matt

[Guest]

I think you are spot on Carlo, Fiore comes across to me as supremely confident in his art and seems to want to instill that in his students. I only wish I could read the Getty Manuscript as there is so much more text.

[Shane Smith]

Agreed.The Getty text would be a wonderful thing to have on hand to further understanding.

Also,as for Fiore,he is indeed a tremendous icon of wit and confidence.The only Master that exceeds him in either(much to my delight <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> )is Silver.Silver makes for very informative AND entertaining reading"...Bring to me a fencer" indeed! <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[Matt Easton]

Well if you want any specific bits of text from Getty maybe I can help, though our translation is about 3rd draft rather than final.

Matt

[Shane Smith]

Thanks for the generous offer Matt! If you have it available and are willing to share,I would be very interested in the preamble wherein Fiore explains the littany of things to check first in armored fighting,ie.whether the opponents visor is pinned,evaluating his armor by various methods etc. .If this rings a bell and you have it on hand,I would be very interested to see it again.If you can't publicly share this,please PM me using the forums messaging function.Thanks again. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Matt and others,

Are there sources out there that go into masters, such as Fiore's life and background?

I think Fiore was so "ate up" was because he wished he was Irish. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

Cheers,

[Shane Smith]

Sure Sully,Fiore gives a thorough rundown of both his lineage and warrior background in the preamble to the "Flower of Battles".He's definitely Italian! <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> You know how cocky those Italians are!

I've never heard of an Irish Master,but then those crazy Irishmen were always too drunk to write or draw weren't they? <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> (Aren't stereotypes absolutely rediculous when you take the time to consider them at face value? <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

[Matt Easton]

"I would be very interested in the preamble wherein Fiore explains the littany of things to check first in armored fighting,ie.whether the opponents visor is pinned,evaluating his armor by various methods etc. "

Hi Shane - he doesn't have a preamble about this as far as I can remember - in one technique of armoured sword he says to lift the opponent's visor if he has one, to stab him in the face, and again in poleaxe. He refers to stabbing the arm-pit a couple of times, stabbing the palm of the hand (gauntlet) and so on, and even to penetrating a breastplate with a poleaxe thrust.

Matt

[Matt Easton]

>>Are there sources out there that go into masters, such as Fiore's life and background?<<

There are German books about German Masters - JC has listed those on this site here somewhere I think.
For Fiore - there is so far:

In Italian:
1902 Francesco Novati
1907 Luigi Zanutto
19?? Giovanni Rapisardi
SOON Marco Rubolli

In English:
Matt Easton <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

http://www.international-arms-and-armour-conferences.com/publication.htm

I had to write a large general article for the upcoming conference I will be presenting in Florence next week, and I have translated material from Novati and Zanutto and present some of it (some unpublished in English before) in my article above.

Bob Charron's upcoming book may also have some historical background to Fiore in it.

Also there is an excellent article by Marco Rubolli in English on the soon-to-be-published HEMAC website.

Matt

[Matt Easton]

"Fiore gives a thorough rundown of both his lineage and warrior background in the preamble to the "Flower of Battles"."

Yes, and our translation in English of the Getty version of this is online here:

http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery/album32

Matt

[Brian Hunt]

Matt, are you going to have the getty version for the guards up soon? I know there is a lot more detail in the getty version than in the novati.

[Matt Easton]

Umm.. I already did (for longsword) - I have paraphrased the text from Getty for the time being, but almost all of the information in the Getty text I have put into English, in brief.

I'd also like to note though that several pictures need to be re-done and the text will get improved - I haven't had much time to do much on this project yet because I got back from the meeting in Dijon, had lots of stuff to do, and am just about to head off to Florence... After that I should have more time though, so we'll have a couple of photo sessions and I should be able to get quite a lot of the longsword, spear and dagger up fairly soon.

Cheers,

Matt

[steve hick]

Matt, Marco's book is already published check
www.ilcerchio.it

Also, if I remember there is a work on Fiore from the 1800s, name escapes me, I am not home to check my notes. I think the reference is in Bascetta or in Zanutto.
Steve

[Brian Hunt]

Sorry Matt,

between my firewall and my browser not properly refreshing your website I wasn't getting everything you had posted there. Blast that Demon microsoft. Thanks for the hard work on your site I look forward to it's progression.

Brian Hunt.