Finding information about historical weapons?

For Historical European Fighting Arts, Weaponry, & Armor

Moderators: Webmaster, Stacy Clifford

User avatar
Jeffrey Hull
Posts: 678
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2002 3:40 pm
Location: USA

Postby Jeffrey Hull » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:54 am

Jonathan_Kaplan wrote:Could you post a "sample" fight dialogue that shows what sorts of things you are doing, and what the players are describing?


This may not be what you mean by "sample fight dialouge", but how about reading accounts of historical combats :?:

I could suggest these :arrow:

Viking saga fights
http://thearma.org/essays/vikingfight.htm

Danish epic combats
http://thearma.org/essays/Saxo.htm

Duel of Theobald versus Seitz - Germany, 1370
http://www.thearma.org/essays/theobald-seitz.html

Duel of the Century
The Judicial Combat of Jarnac and Châtaigneraye - France, 1547
http://www.thearma.org/essays/DOTC.htm

Sir John Reresby: Seventeenth-Century Scrapper
http://www.thearma.org/essays/reresby.html
JLH

*Wehrlos ist ehrlos*

LafayetteCCurtis
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:00 pm

Postby LafayetteCCurtis » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:56 am

Hmm...that's going to be tough. Is there any RPG system that you're particularly familiar with?

Jonathan_Kaplan
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:22 pm
Location: Central Kentucky

Postby Jonathan_Kaplan » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:21 am

I'm very familiar with D20, so if you could email or PM me any particular D20 rules, that would be awesome...

oh, and to be on topic for the forum, I started reading those links, Jeffrey, and they made my head hurt... but some of them are okay. I was more looking for descriptions of what the players said their characters were doing...

LafayetteCCurtis
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:00 pm

Postby LafayetteCCurtis » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:45 am

Well, I'll try whether I can find a game to DM and transcribe this week, then. ;)

Jonathan_Kaplan
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:22 pm
Location: Central Kentucky

Postby Jonathan_Kaplan » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:13 pm

Any updates?

In general, how would you all describe, in prose, an attempt to attack someone or something that would describe either a large amount of success, a fair success, a minor failure, or a botch?

So the idea is you set up what you are trying to do, and, depending on the dice, you get one of those above four options. How would you all describe your actions in combat?

I would like to see other people's prose examples of how they would "do" the combat thing, just to see what it would look like. Thanks!

User avatar
Stacy Clifford
Posts: 1126
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 11:51 am
Location: Houston, TX
Contact:

Postby Stacy Clifford » Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:24 pm

Large amount of success = major wound or disarm
A fair success = minor wound or disrupted action (his)
A minor failure = no damage or disrupted action (yours), opportunity to defend counterattack
A botch = major opening for counterattack, no opportunity to defend
0==[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Stacy Clifford
Free-Scholar
ARMA Houston, TX

LafayetteCCurtis
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:00 pm

Postby LafayetteCCurtis » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:09 am

I haven't had the luck to DM any games within the last few weeks, and I don't know when the next will be. But I'll do a writeup when I'm done with it.

Jonathan_Kaplan
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:22 pm
Location: Central Kentucky

Postby Jonathan_Kaplan » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:11 pm

Stacy, I meant something like, "As I face the foe, I drop into (x stance), and take (y swing) keeping my guard (z location), I'm trying to make an opening so I can achieve (q strike)."

That sort of thing...

User avatar
Andrew Peoples
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: currently: Grand Rapids, Michigan

Postby Andrew Peoples » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:34 pm

It took me forever to find this but I think you might like it.
http://www.theriddleofsteel.net/whatis/jccombat.htm

It's an article by John Clements about how he would design a game. I thing you'll enjoy it. :D
Respectfully,

Andrew Peoples
solo scholar

LafayetteCCurtis
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:00 pm

Postby LafayetteCCurtis » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:08 am

Well, maybe I can offer an example of a single attack. Let's say that in the previous action an orc had tried to hit a PC fighter with a downwards diagonal cut (a diagonal Oberhau) but failed to make an impression on the PC. I look at the player and ask how his character defended against that strike and what the character's counterattack would be. He says that the character defended with a Zornhau. Because that's a pretty normal and effective response, I don't give him any circumstance bonuses or penalties for the Zornhau.

Great success (a critical hit followed by a succesful threat roll): he smashes into the orc's head and crushes its brains, or chops into the orc's neck and tears open its carotid artery, or misses initially but manages to follow-up imediately with a thrust straight into its brain or throat. With the longsword's 1d8 damage and +1 Str bonus (assuming the PC's Strength is 12) multiplied by the critical hit, the PC stands a very good chance of instantly downing the orc with this one hit. Even if it survives, it'll have to make a Will save to stay in the fight (otherwise it will instantly run away).

Normal success (a hit, but not critical): the PC hits, but at 1d8+1 damage he has about the same damage as the orc's HD so there's about a 50% chance of downing the orc in one hit. If the damage rolls shows up high then it's a fatal injury as described in the critical hit possibility above, but if the damage is low and doesn't knock the orc out immediately then it's a serious but not immediately fatal injury (like a head hit that concusses and disorients it but leaves it standing, or a cut that goes deep enoug to sever a jugular vein but not deep enough to hit the arteries).

Minor failure (a miss, but not a 1): the PC misses his timing or distance and his blow goes wide--say, he strikes from slightly too far a distance and his Zornhau passes in front of the orc's face instead of crashing into its head, and the PC isn't quick or perceptive enough to convert the attack into a thrust before the blade goes too far and misses the orc entirely. This would leave the two combatants in a bind.

Catastrophic failure (a natural 1 on the d20!): the PC seriously messes up his timing and distance, and instead of an effective counterattack he gives a clumsy swing that barely manages to stop the orc's previous attack. I decide that he overcommits himself into the blow, and he stumbles from the miss--giving the orc a +2 circumstance bonus to attack against him on the next round of combat. (Assuming that none of the PC's friends have taken care of it first, of course, and they usually do. I've found that this way of DMing combat demands serious teamwork on the PCs' part!)


Or let's try a situation where the orc attacked with a low cut to the legs and misses; the PC decides that the successful defense resulted from a Krumphau.

Great success: the orcs' hands are gone--one is chopped of at the wrist, while the other hangs only by the merest thread of skin. I don't need to elaborate on the kind of bleeding that it implies. Of course, even with the critical, there's still a likelihood that the orc can stand up to the damage, and in this case I'd just pronounce that it's disarmed and in a serious daze from blood loss but it's so high on adrenalin that its fight-or-flight instict is still very much alive. Its next action (which, again, will be decided by a Will save) will be either running away or throwing itself upon the PC, braving the gauntlet of the PC's attack of opportunity for one last chance to get a blow in before it dies.

Moderate success: the orc loses one hand, but it's not the dominant one; again, it may run away or it may go into a rage and try to bash away at the player with the hand still wielding the weapon on the next round.

Minor failure: the PC hits the orc's blade instead of its hands. The low cut is stopped all right but the orc isn't hurt either. A stalemate with no clear advantage to either side, so no bonuses or penalties for the next round.

Catastrophic failure: the PC goes in a little to fast and, instead of striking into the orc's blow, his strike only blocks it in a static way. I may either give the orc a +2 bonus or penalize the PC's AC by 2 on the next round.


Now, what if the PC wins initiative and strikes first? Let's reverse the situation and have him attacking with an Oberhau.

Great success: the orc has absolutely no time to react and gets its head cleft open or its neck chopped. Even if it doesn't die from the player's blow, I'm going to give it a -2 bonus to its next attack roll or morale check (depending on which one comes first). If it dies, of course, I may decide to have some fun and declare that i has been cleanly beheaded, triggering an immediate morale check for the remaining orcs (if any)!

Moderate success: the PC whacks the orc on the head, shoulder, or neck, but not necessarily in a fatal way. Depending on my mood, I may give it no penalties or let it suffer a -2 morale penalty to attack in this round only.

Minor failure: the player's swing either goes wide or is effectively intercepted by the orc. The orc's choices for the next action will be quite like what the player does in the first listing above.

Catastrophic failure: oops. The player's blow goes nowhere. I may declare that the PC's sword got stuck on some obstruction, rendering him unable to make the blow at all and wide open to the orc's next attack; or the orc may turn to be an unusually savvy swords-orc (ouch) and effectively counters the attack with a Zornhau or [i]Schielhau of his own. Either way, the orc gets a +2 to attack on the next round.

Is that clear enough? I'm in a somewhat addle-brained state, so please forgive me if it isn't.


Return to “Research and Training Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests

 
 

Note: ARMA - The Association for Renaissance Martial Arts and the ARMA logo are federally registered trademarks, copyright 2001. All rights reserved. No use of the ARMA name or emblem is permitted without authorization. Reproduction of material from this site without written permission of the authors is strictly prohibited. HACA and The Historical Armed Combat Association copyright 1999 by John Clements. All rights reserved. Contents of this site 1999 by ARMA.