Hand-and-a-half Norse (Viking) Sword ~ Discuss!

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Joel Norman
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This reminds me. . .

Postby Joel Norman » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:19 pm

Hey, a while back I remember posting here on this forum about possibilities of Norse longswords, due to the fact that several of the Norman nobility in the 900s and 1000s had the nickname, "longsword." (These people were the in the generations not far removed from William the Conqueror). Of course, many people speculated that the nickname had nothing to do with actual swords, but rather personal characteristics of the people, but this image of an extra-long handle makes me wonder if my original imagined possibility was true: that some Norse did in fact experiment with weapon design enough to make longswords as we know them. Interesting!
Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand;
7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
Psalms 149:5 - 7

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Grant Hall
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Postby Grant Hall » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:54 pm

Interesting thought, I assume you are talking of Viljâlmr Langaspjôt better know as William Longsword who lived around the year 900.

I see only three reasons he would be given such a name, either one he was very large like his father Hrólf Ganger (said to be so tall no horse was big enough for him to ride) and thus his One Handed Sword was far longer than a normal man's sword. Or two he actually wielded a two-handed sword, or three he was endowed with a larger manhood than most.

I would be interested if anyone could list measurements of some of the larger known Norse Hilts and some of the larger known Norse Blades (they do not hae to be on the same sword I just want to get a sense of scale for some of the largest possiblities).

Also could someone tell me, if a larger sized Norse blade was attached to the Hilt in the Pcture (assuming the hilt had a 22cm grip) then how would the sword handle? What other sword would be most like?

Thanks for the replies, look forward o hearing from you.

Cheers!
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Grant Hall - Scholar
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“The Nation that makes a great distinction
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Ken Dietiker
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Postby Ken Dietiker » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:07 am

Well, finds from the La Tene III era (125 BCE to 100 CE) have a few longer than average blades, from 80-90 cm (31-35 inches) with tangs from 20-23 cm (8-9 inches). They are a bit less pointy than previous versions (La Tene I and II), that is pointed but with a slightly rounded tip. They also have a thinner blade with a more pronounced ridge and some examples of double fuller the length of the blade, where earlier versions were more lenticular without the center ridge.

(Note: in French this ridge is called an "arrete" which means a "stop", or at least I have seen some articles that call it that. Not sure if it's always been called that by the blacksmiths or if that's something invented by a historian/archaeologist to describe what he "thought" was the ridge's purpose. Something to do more research on...)

Since little if any organic material survives to tell us much about the handle construction and form, there is a lot of debate either direction as to whether or not these were actually hand-and-a-half swords or not. The nay-sayers claim that no evidence exists for the style of fighting used in two hands, so it must have been for anther purpose (such as changing grips during the fight, fighting in ranks, or something; many and any reasons come up), and those who claim they ARE examples of hand-and-a-half swords of course can not prove it, so it is dismissed by the establishment as not fulfilling the criteria of the Socratic method.

However, with such lengths of blade and tang from this period that have already been found, who's to doubt such a thing did not exist in a more northern area as well, even a bit latter.

But you know, without evidence, any such theory will remain just that, a theory.
Ken

-----
"They are ill discoverers that think there is no land,
when they can see nothing but the sea". ~Francis Bacon

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Kevin Maurer
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Hand and a half Nose Sword

Postby Kevin Maurer » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:02 pm

I think it would be interesing to see how the pommel/cross is attached,
what is the fit like? Three lobed pommels like that often have a bottom half that they are riveted to. These bottom halves were often fairly large.
That might account for another inch or inch and a half less grip. Also the condition of the blade versus the cross/pommel contrasts greatly. Granted, Bronze ages differently than steel. But we don't know in what environment this sword has laid. It appears to be a River find somewhat common in Latvia. I've not been able to find evidence of other Latvian River finds that still have a Cross/pommel. Overall though, very interesting. I too remain hopeful that someone somewhere will find a hand and a half Norse Sword.
GFS
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Grant Hall
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Postby Grant Hall » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:46 am

Hey Kevin, I have been contacted by the son of a museum (curator?) and have given him all the information I have regarding the Sword, his father is currently trying to gather all the needed information for us.

I can tell you the sword is published so I find it hard to believe it would be missing a section of the pommel (though mistakes do happen) also I believe it was found in a burial mound not a river though I cannot be a hundred percent sure.

I will try and keep in contact with you all, however the hopes of ever finding out the truth remain slim.

Cheers!
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Grant Hall - Scholar

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“The Nation that makes a great distinction

between its scholars and its warriors

will have its thinking done by cowards

and its fighting done by fools"

– Thucydides 5th c. BC

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Jonathan Waller
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Postby Jonathan Waller » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:46 pm

Grant
Have you sent me the information?
I've not recieved it, can you send it again, to the Guild email below.

Thanks

Jonathan

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Grant Hall
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Postby Grant Hall » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:34 am

Hey Jonathan I did indeed send it, though unfortunately there was not all that much to send, I will post it here aswell as to you PM box and you Email.

Cheers!
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Grant Hall - Scholar

--ARMA Australia--

0==[>>>>>>>>>>



“The Nation that makes a great distinction

between its scholars and its warriors

will have its thinking done by cowards

and its fighting done by fools"

– Thucydides 5th c. BC

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Grant Hall
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Postby Grant Hall » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:51 am

This is the Email I sent you unfortunately its not much more than has already been posted.

Dear Mr. Waller.

I wish I could be of more help as I too am very curious about this sword, unfortunately all I can tell you is that it was found in Grobina, Latvia, and that the finding was published in a Companion Booklet for the Viking Heritage Magazine called "Follow the Vikings".

I hope this helps you in some way.

Cheers!

PS: I would appreciate it if you could keep me informed on any and all discoveries you make concearning this sword.

Look forward to hearing from you!

Grant Hall.
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Grant Hall - Scholar

--ARMA Australia--

0==[>>>>>>>>>>



“The Nation that makes a great distinction

between its scholars and its warriors

will have its thinking done by cowards

and its fighting done by fools"

– Thucydides 5th c. BC

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Jonathan Waller
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Postby Jonathan Waller » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:59 am

Grant
Thanks for this, the magazine referance will be useful.

I'll pass it on and keep you up to date with anything we can find out.
Best
Jonathan

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Grant Hall
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Postby Grant Hall » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:47 am

Hey Jonathan,

I was kind of hoping to have heard back from you, so is there any word on the Sword in question?

Talk to you soon.

Cheers!
<<<<<<<<<<]==0

Grant Hall - Scholar

--ARMA Australia--

0==[>>>>>>>>>>



“The Nation that makes a great distinction

between its scholars and its warriors

will have its thinking done by cowards

and its fighting done by fools"

– Thucydides 5th c. BC

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Jonathan Waller
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Postby Jonathan Waller » Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:04 am

Grant
Yes been quiet because I was waiting to hear back from Dan Carlsson in Sweden, he is now chassing up some colleagues of his in Latvia. I'll post when I get something worth passing on.

All the best
Jonathan

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Grant Hall
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Postby Grant Hall » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:25 pm

Very well, it is good to hear that there is progress being made, I anxiously await any further word.

God bless!
<<<<<<<<<<]==0

Grant Hall - Scholar

--ARMA Australia--

0==[>>>>>>>>>>



“The Nation that makes a great distinction

between its scholars and its warriors

will have its thinking done by cowards

and its fighting done by fools"

– Thucydides 5th c. BC


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