Concerning head protection

[Jon Wolfe]

For those who use fencing masks, have any of you considered wearing or actually do wear, an arming cap underneath your mask? For those who have tried this, what are your thoughts about it?

[Keith Culbertson]

any extra padding especially toward the back is useful with fencing masks, so I have even put just a folded towel draped about my head; that is also a way to get a more snug fit.

One of our members actually did have an arming cap made---he used it on occaision with both fencing masks and the Brian Hunt custom helmet with effect.

other than added heat i can see no drawbacks for one that fits well; also sops up sweat and can reduce wear on f-mask liner

good luck!

[Stacy Clifford]

I've never found it necessary for myself personally, but Keith's right, the only thing you can really say against it is that it will be a bit hotter, something Texas weather generally discourages. If you like it, wear it.

[Jeremiah Backhaus]

Whilst sparring with paddeds (is that how to spell those?) I was wearing a helmet that I made (I am a blacksmith so I have some skill in metal working), for padding I used a TKD helmet that I shaved to fit in snugly. My partner decided he didn't like the helmet and set about to dent it. I am sorry to say that he was successful. My helmet (which was ugly to begin with, I made it to comply with SCA rules) now has a great dent in it. And I had a mild concussion to boot.

Point of the story, extra padding won't help. The best bet is not being there! Oh, and make sure whatever you wear is stylish so your partner isn't offended by it. hehehe

note: my partner told me his goal and I challenged him to try. Bad move on my part...

-Jeremiah (GFS)

[Jason Taylor]

You know, this brings up a related point that deserves some thought. Sorry for the thread drift....

I know many ARMA members use fencing masks without incident, so they're probably fine (especially for paddeds), but it seems to me that since they're not designed to take heavy impact, another solution might be more ideal.

They're really designed to protect the face from light, thin, semi-pointy pieces of metal, rather than from concussive force and blunt trauma. So I prefer to use a hockey mask because it is designed for that--it can stop a hockey stick or a puck going 100 mph, so it should have no trouble with paddeds. It also provides good back of the head protection.

Neither, however, provide something that I think we should concern ourselves with more, and that's throat protection. Some of you who were at the IG may have seen the guy wth the hockey helmet on get piked in the throat and drop instantly. That would be me. Since, I've purchased a Lexan throat guard and a padded collar.

The problem with fencing masks is that they give the illusion of throat protection, but if you get hit in the throat with a waster while wearing one, that little thin strip won't do much. The fact that you think you're protected kind of encourages the wearer to be less cautious, or worse, the attacker to be less cautious in targeting the upper body. We don't usually try to hit throats, obviously, but accidents happen, as I found out.

Plastic armor like Brian Hunt's is good stuff, to, but it's usually handmade, and therefore hard to come by (unless you make your own). In any case, the foam inside the hockey masks is what I think would be the best inner padding--it's like an extremely stiff landau, probably to proved deceleration when the imact is really high velocity (I'm not an engineer, so I'm just guessing).

Jason

[CalebChow]

I find that for fencing masks it's nice to have 3-weapon masks and not just foil masks like the one I have; foil masks are not sturdy enough to fully absorb the impact of wasters.

Just the other day I got thrusted in the face with a padded waster and the mask caved in, causing the mesh to scrape some skin from just above my right eye.

I highly doubt eye injury itself could occur unless the mesh itself rips, but face scrapes around the eye might be something you'd want to avoid with a good 3weapon mask...or a custom sparring helm like this one:

http://www.thearma.org/photos/Gathering03/Misc/misc02.jpg

That thing looks sweet.

[JeremyDillon]

I've tried padding my 3W mask with a towel, and it's certainly more comfortable. (We practice inside, so heat isn't really an issue.) When I have tried it, I haven't noticed any real difference in the already small amount of concussive pain that reaches my scalp on a strike, and it takes a lot longer to get on. One of the great benefits of fencing masks is that they're super easy to get on and off, even if your bespectacled (like me). On another note, while 3W masks certainly are the sturdiest (to my knowledge) of the sport fencing mask, mine all have at least a couple of noticeably sizable dents from waster contact. A bit disconcerting, but they're certainly better than nothing. I've thought of trying a hockey mask, but I haven't actually done so yet. Seems like it should work passably. Throat protection has always concerned me. I've tried various methods of padding, but none of them really worked out, as I'm no craftsman. I don't think I recall a throat strike on myself or in my presence, but it's still a definite concern. I shudder to think what injury a careless waster thrust could do on an unprotected throat. Of course the solution here, as to most sparring injury problems, is to use appropriate control, something I'm sure I don't need to remind all of the experienced martial artists on this forum.

[Jaron Bernstein]

Just a safety reminder on that note. If you do any dagger training, but sparring especially, always wear some form of safety goggles. Bumps and stitches heal, but eye injuries can be forever.

[Shane Smith]

Just a safety reminder on that note. If you do any dagger training, but sparring especially, always wear some form of safety goggles. Bumps and stitches heal, but eye injuries can be forever.

Agreed. I wear safety glasses almost all the time unless I am wearing a three-weapon mask or a visored helm.

As for the original question, I wear no arming cap under my mask...it's too hot. SFS Matt Anderson does though.

[CalebChow]

The irritating thing about hockey helmets is that the gaps in the visor are large enough for waster thrusts to get through.

Has anyone found a way to reinforce the hockey helmets with mesh or something to prevent that from being a problem?
It's kinda unrealistic for sparring to have restrictions of such techniques due to gear issues...

[Jason Taylor]

The irritating thing about hockey helmets is that the gaps in the visor are large enough for waster thrusts to get through.

Has anyone found a way to reinforce the hockey helmets with mesh or something to prevent that from being a problem?
It's kinda unrealistic for sparring to have restrictions of such techniques due to gear issues...

Actually, I just bought the plexiglass shield for mine. It works great against all paddeds and most water contact--but yes, the spaces in front of my teeth (which I am very fond of) are still big enough to allow a sword tip to enter. I'm working on thermoforming my own Lexan faceplate to specs, but no chance to get on it yet. Still healing my hand. Anyway, Lexan is supposed to thermoform great.

Jason

[Jeff Hansen]

The irritating thing about hockey helmets is that the gaps in the visor are large enough for waster thrusts to get through.

Has anyone found a way to reinforce the hockey helmets with mesh or something to prevent that from being a problem?
It's kinda unrealistic for sparring to have restrictions of such techniques due to gear issues...

Go to www.bwire.com for wire mesh, and attach it with lots of zip-ties. The edges either need to be curled under or edged with something or they will catch and shred padded weapons.

[Jon Wolfe]

From my limited experience sparring using a hockey helmet, I have found myself dissatisfied from its performance, and having used fencing masks, albeit only when sport fencing, think that they would perform better. About using a plexiglass shield in a sparing helmet, I would recommend against it, as I've also used a riot helmet with a solid plexiglass face-shield and found it incredibly stifling, even with the bottom being open.

[Steve Pangerl]

The irritating thing about hockey helmets is that the gaps in the visor are large enough for waster thrusts to get through.

Has anyone found a way to reinforce the hockey helmets with mesh or something to prevent that from being a problem?
It's kinda unrealistic for sparring to have restrictions of such techniques due to gear issues...

One alternative I’ve found that works is a ringette mask:

http://www.hockeygiant.com/itch902rcmbo.html

Ringette sticks don’t have a blade on them so they manufacture the masks with a narrower grill. The spacing ends up being narrow enough to stop a waster or padded sword.

[john hines]

The irritating thing about hockey helmets is that the gaps in the visor are large enough for waster thrusts to get through.

Has anyone found a way to reinforce the hockey helmets with mesh or something to prevent that from being a problem?
It's kinda unrealistic for sparring to have restrictions of such techniques due to gear issues...

Go to www.bwire.com for wire mesh, and attach it with lots of zip-ties. The edges either need to be curled under or edged with something or they will catch and shred padded weapons.

What grade of wire would you recommend for this.