The Falx and the Bruce?

[Benjamin Parker]

I've read that the falx cut through roman shields and armor but a cutting weapon shouldn't be able to do that.

I also read that the bruce split an english knight from crown to navel with an ax

Can tell me anything about that?

[LafayetteCCurtis]

Well, what I heard instead was that Roman legionaries adopted the manica (segmented arm defenses) in order to prevent their originally unarmored limbs from being hacked apart by falxes during Trajan's Dacian campaign. Of course the idea is rather hotly disputed, and I'm not (yet) aware of any scholarly consensus about its validity.

[Benjamin Parker]

It shows the manica on Trajans column also they added greaves to their armament and crossbars to their helmets but how would a cutting weapon get through a helmet? and how would the Bruce split an armored knight from his skull to his belly?

[Brent Lambell]

I think it is wise to take any primary source with a grain of salt. Anyone recording history had an agenda of some sort in this time, I guess not too much has changed, so it would be important to first know who wrote this about Bruce. That might be a good start to answering your question.

[Benjamin Parker]

It was a contemperary english chronicler who wrote about it

[LafayetteCCurtis]

It shows the manica on Trajans column also they added greaves to their armament and crossbars to their helmets but how would a cutting weapon get through a helmet?

It probably didn't. Note how I said that current theories about the falx usually emphasize its effectiveness against unarmored flesh, and the theory about the origins of the manica takes this a bit further by positing that Trajan's legionaries adopted the manica because they had seen the effects of the falx upon unprotected flesh and believed (probably quite correctly) that metal limb defenses like the manica and the ocrea (greaves) would give them adequate protection. Of course, this theory is currently in dispute, since there's some evidence about the use of the manica by Roman legionaries and their opponents (revolting gladiators, in this case) well before the Dacian campaign--it's all summarized in this page:

http://www.romanarmy.net/manica.htm

but of course this new evidence doesn't rule out the possibility that Trajan's legionaries did specifically adopt the manica to defend against the falx; it only makes it more likely that the legionaries were simply following a precedent shown by the effectiveness of the manicae worn by earlier legionaries.


As for the Bruce's axe, there are three excerpts from translated primary sources available online via De Re Militari:

The Scalacronica

The Lanercost chronicle

Vita Edwardi Secundi

Two out of the three excerpts mention that the Bruce killed Henry de Bohun, but nothing about cleaving the knight from crest to chin (not to the navel), so I still don't know where the "crest to chin" story came from--probably from a different chronicle, or a section of the Scalacronica outside the excerpt. In any case, I recall reading that the "crest to chin" trope came up only in one chronicle--not any of the others--and so it might just be a dramatic exaggeration rather than a representation of the truth, since the other chronicles would probably have remarked on the "crest to chin" cut as well if it had actually happene.

[Benjamin Parker]

Where does everybody get all these articles on de re miltari? can you tell me

[Stacy Clifford]

Perhaps by going to their website, reading it and clicking on links...

[Brent Lambell]

And for what its worth, my favorite professor has their link on his university website. I trust his recommendation 100%. I have not spent as much time on their as I would like, but then again I never have half the time I need in a day. If you have access to the internet these days, there is a lot of quality information available for free. http://www.deremilitari.org/ is one of many great sites from which to choose.