Hello ARMA!

[Jonathan Newhall]

I am, given my username, Jonathan Newhall. (Feel free to call me Jon if you want). I am not yet a member of ARMA, though I do intend to apply in the upcoming years, and I have been interested in swordsmanship for years, but only in the past six months have I really been into studying theoretical and practical applications. I've read more or less all of the public information on this website, a lot of the forum posts et c. and visited many links. Thus far I have Christian Tobler's instructional book, and am looking into purchasing Mr Clements' book on the Medieval Longsword as well. I am also a big fan of ARMA's technique with proper intent et al.

If you don't mind terribly, I'd like to get answers to a few questions from the board members! I currently live in Mercer County, New Jersey, and oddly enough steel blunts are considered weapons that require a permit! Unfortunately, I am not 21 and thus cannot register myself for a weapon permit, and as I have no desire to do anything illegal (I have consulted both a lawyer and a local judge on the legality of steel blunts, no dice ) I was wondering what you guys would recommend as the most realistic (i.e. close to a steel blade in handling, if not look) waster out there? The only requirement is it cannot have a metal blade, sharpened or not, as that is the stipulation of the "knife" law in this local county.

Furthermore, what do you guys think would be the best book or video purchase in terms of instruction in the various sword forms for the longsword? I'd prefer the German system, but the Italian system isn't that different besides being classified in a different language. I'm sure I'll have more questions as time goes by, and I'll do my best to help anyone with questions I can answer - I look forward to being a part of the ARMA forum, even if I am not yet part of the organization.

[Sal Bertucci]

Well that's a tricky thing then. Once you get away from steel blunts the pro/con choices become much higher. I'm sure others can give a more in depth analysis, but essentially; wooden wasters are a more correct weight, but are overly stiff, while nylon wasters have a more correct flex, but tend to be on the overly light side. Either one of these options effects the handling of the weapon, and might help/hinder certain techniques.

Disclaimer: I've never handled a nylon waster. These are just the most repeated points that I have heard.

If you're looking for where to buy them; A believe the current favorites are New Sterling Arms for wooden wasters, and ARMA member Brian Hunt's Dwarven Smithy for the nylon wasters.

For books and videos; I don't know of any mass market video that would help, so nothing there, sorry. As for books, I've found John Clements' books to be useful starting points in giving general information. On the other hand; the best way to go about it is to start working on a manual. There are lots of free ones on the ARMA website, and even more when you become a member. Pick one, maybe two, and try to go over it in detail.

Hope that helps. Welcome to the forum, and to ARMA.

[Jonathan Newhall]

Thanks Sal, that helped a lot! I guess if steel is out of the question then the best combination would be a well-weighted wooden waster (try saying that five times fast :p) for the more technical drills and a nylon one for blade-on-blade work?

Also I'll make sure to get to work on the free manuals available on the site as soon as I can, but books and/or videos help immensely with determining form (which let's be honest, is kind of hard to tell from medieval era drawings).

Also, in terms of sparring (be it at half speed for technique or full speed for intent) do you guys think that nylon or wood would be better? Or perhaps even one of each? (Or would that result in a broken waster of one type or the other?)

[Jeremiah Backhaus]

Hey Jon, Welcome!

Right now, if you can't get a blunt, get a wood waster. It will get you training faster. I am a fan of the plastics, having worked with With Intent to make some (unfortunately rigors of poor economy and growing family led to the untimely closure). Weight is actually fairly close to steel, with flex and all that. But wood has been the choice since...well, since the beginning.

New Sterling is a great place to look for quality wasters, I am also a fan of making your own stuff. A hard Maple is good for that.

As for which system to use - Man, use them all. Part of the philosophy of ARMA is the holistic approach. You really should try and get with some other guys and get to a 1.0. Make this a priority, it will give you what you need to get going. But for now, pick up the wood waster and get going.

Also, I would say send in the application for membership sooner rather than later, if you've got the money and inclination might as well do it.

-Jeremiah

[Jonathan Newhall]

Yeah, as for the different "schools" of approach, I'm starting with the Liechtenauer system because it came first historically, then after I become proficient in its usage I will expand my horizons to the Italian system's style; while they aren't all that different, I just don't want to confuse myself

[CalebChow]

Hello Jon!

New Jersey, you say? I'm not sure where exactly Mercer County is, but if you're looking for a study group I go to one in south New Jersey (well, when I'm not in college...) and I can probably get you contact info about it if you're interested. We could ALWAYS use more members

As for wasters, Sal and Jeremiah basically said it all. I have a Nylon waster myself and while it is on the light side, it does behave more like steel in sparring and it's still within the proper weight range...if barely.
Personally I find both wood and nylon to be okay at everything, although if you're really intent on getting the proper feel the differences are pretty apparent.

For videos, there's a dvd by agilitas.tv that's not too bad. I've asked about it on the forums here and while there are a number of things ARMA disagrees with, overall I've heard pretty positive reviews on it. There are also a ton of ARMA videos on youtube I could PM you if you wanna save the trouble of searching.

[Sal Bertucci]

On sparring with them: Make sure you use like vs. like. So WvW and NvN. That another thing I've heard consistently.

[Shane Smith]

I cannot express enough how much better wood is for general purpose training than nylon in my opinion...except for the money nylon will save you in the long run over broken wooden wasters.

I also favor Brian Hunts nylon wasters over others for freeplay.

[Jeremiah Backhaus]

I second Sal with the proper pairing. Plastics give too much under the pressure of the woods. The plastics will also be a bit more slick on the wood than on another plastic.

I also disagree with Shane on the superiority of the wood. I use plastics for everything from flouryshing to pell work and find it to work very well. I also prefer my WI over Brian's. Some details that Eric put in helped. Apparently I am just being disagreeable with you today, Shane. We might have to settle this another way...

Jon, if you really don't want to confuse yourself, get to a 1.0 as soon as possible. Until then simply work on the basic guards and cutting in the segno (I believe that information is given in the public site...somewhere...). This will give a good background. I would take Caleb up on the offer for hooking up with the other group, that will really give you a place to start.

As for sparring and freeplay, just don't use sharps. Everything else is fair game. That is part of the training methodology - using all of our tools to make us better fighters. You learn different things about fighting with tools from using the different tools. Don't worry about breaking a waster, it will happen. Just use the crap out of it before it happens.

-Jeremiah (SA)

[Shane Smith]

Fair enough Jeremiah,

Many will eventually find that the plastic wasters flex along their edges in a very un-swordlike way that steel and wood does not. This causes many good covers to fail and many poor cuts to hit as they bend around a cover to strike home. I own nylon wasters from both of our guys making them and I agree that while the one has much more beautiful machining and the like, Brians is a bit stiffer because it doesn't have that machining. That stiffness makes it more swordlike in blade on blade play.

[Jonathan Newhall]

Thanks for all the help everyone

I'll pick up a new better weighted waster from New Stirling Arms (the one I have presently is kind of... bad, to say the least, in terms of being weighted well) and find myself a 1.0 class as soon as I can. Might be a while, though, I can only practice currently in my free time, which is unfortunately not that much.

As for the youtube videos, I've found the account that has the Harnesfechten, free play in gambesons, et c. although anymore material you can point me towards would be great.

Also Mercer County is in central New Jersey in the area around Trenton (although I definitely don't live in Trenton! :p) That's why its weapon laws are so... extremely restrictive. I mean a blunt is dangerous, but no more so than, say, a crowbar. Strangeness aside, I'll get that wooden waster on New Stirling (probably a german hand and a half with the shorter blade - six feet tall and I still have trouble with my blade catching on the ground when I follow through occasionally. I think my arms may be a tad long). I guess I'll pick up a nylon one eventually before I hit 21 and snag myself a steel blunt just to compare the two types.

The problem with the two study groups for me is that the North group has yet to respond to me, and they're both rather... well, far to drive, frankly. I don't want to spend two hours in the car everytime I want to see y'all, to put it simply. Although if I could keep up a correspondence with either group while I practice independently (at least until more time frees up) that'd be great.

As for what I've done so far, I have general footwork down and am working on the different strikes from and between the guards. Hopefully I'll be able to get the general ideas down to memory soon, then I can get to a 1.0, or at worst I can keep practicing those, perhaps do some exercises with a friend of mine who's also getting into the sword (admittedly partly at my behest )

[Jeremiah Backhaus]

Shane,
Not going to try and convert you to liking your WI more (I am feeling more agreeable today). But the machining that was on some of the earlier works of WI did remove the stiffness. Later models dealt with that problem. I find that Brian's tend to be slipperier (is that a word?). But a fine waster just the same.

I also have primarily used the plastic, and have not noticed a flexing along the edge in the later model that I use. The older ones...sure. I don't think that this is going to play in greatly in freeplay. All that I can say that it hasn't effected me in a negative way, others, it seems, it has. Se la vie.

Jon,
Two hours in the car sounds rough, but once or twice a month is VERY worth it. I have to drive over an hour one way just to get to my study group. One of our members drives two. It is worth it. You will find that your skills grow quite quickly.

Anyway, that is the pitch. Just get working right away, grab a waster (even if it isn't the greatest) and start training. Then begin getting your better equipment and training.

That's it, stop reading - GO TRAIN!!

-Jeremiah

P.S. You really should be training right now, not reading this...

[Jonathan Newhall]

Not to be a grammar nazi, but I believe the spelling for that French saying is "C'est la vie", for that is life.

As for training, I'm going to get right on it when I'm done with classes today

[Jeremiah Backhaus]

I never was very good at French - especially spelling it. Ah well. That's okay, I'd rather have the cooler languages of German and bad Russian.

Thanks for correcting me.

-Jeremiah

[Jonathan Newhall]

Say, is that latin in your signature for "our studies are repeated"?

Also, what I generally do when practicing alone is to practice footwork for about ten minutes just to make sure my lower body remains in form, then I practice my guards for five minutes, and "florysh" some varied strikes for another ten minutes or so. Then I take a break (usually my "break" consists of work ) until I have more free time and repeat as needed. Without a partner, does that seem like the correct kind of time break down?