Query about the etymology of 'Quarter Staff'

[Philip Sibbering]

Hello one and all,

I have a question about the origins of the name of the 'quarter staff' as I can't find a definitive answer anywhere (seems to be lost in time). I thought I would ask here as I really like what the ARMA are doing and you all seem to know what's what.

So where does the name quarter staff come from?

I have an idea - but it pure speculation and I have no direct quote or evidence to support it, but I would like some feedback on it if you have the time (or even better: give me the correct etymology);

My theory: We have the four openings (vier blossen) where the target is divided in quarters.

Due to the way the staff can be gripped when used in close it can attack opposites quite easily. The quarter staff big advantage seems to be when used to get into the thick of it, to grapple and to be used as a lever (half-swording seems to be similar), and seeing as fighters are practically minded: would fighters be matter-of-fact about naming the weapon after it's use?

Is a quarter staff called a quarter staff because it is good at attacking these quarters in this manner?

Would this mean a quarter-staff is one that is of the right length to be used in this way – not too long and not too short. As in 'a quarter staff is a staff of the right length to employ all staff techniques'?

I notice that George Silver says the quarter staff is used like a longsword. Does he mean a longsword all regards; included 'half-swording'. It seems to me that half-swording and staff are similar?

Any feedback, correction, input, source material links and your theories would be greatly appreciated!

Philip

[Sal Bertucci]

I always thought that it was called such b/c in gripping the staff you would divide it into quarters.

[Tomm Skotner]

I have come across references to "half staff." And I seem to recall that either Silver or Swetnam says that a staff is 18 feet long. How long it is probably varies from time and place. But this indicates that a "staff" has got a definite length. A quarter staff would then be, obviously, one quarter of the full staff.

This is all very off the top of my head. I cannot remember my sources. And quite frankly, I cannot vouch for its validity. But if a full staff is 18 feet, that would make a quarter staff about 4 1/2 feet long. And that seems about right, does not it?

[Sal Bertucci]

Yet in Silver's book he says the short staff (alternate name for quarterstaff) should be between 7-9ft in length.

[Jon Pellett]

No one knows, but everyone has an opinion. There are loads of proposed etymologies, some plausible, almost all totally unsupported by any historical evidence.

The OED says probably because it was made from lumber split in quarters from the tree - you can sometimes see references to a piece of lumber called a quarter in older writings. This is the most authoritative etymology.

The common explanation among WMAists is what Sal said: this is from Allanson-Winn's Victorian fencing manual which says "I imagine it originally derived its name from being grasped by one hand at a quarter of its length from the middle, and with the other hand at the middle." Dr. Johnson's earlier Dictionary has a similar etymology: "A staff of defence, so called, I believe, from the manner of using it; one hand being placed at the middle, and the other equally between the end and the middle."

But as you can see, Allanson-Winn was just guessing himself (and the same is probably true of Johnson). The earliest English quarterstaff sources (Silver, Swetnam, etc) make no reference to dividing into quarters, and tend to grip the staff at one end; holding it in the middle was more common later. So I think this etymology is bogus too, though better than most.

The explanation proposed by Tomm is also pretty common, but no, it is also wrong. Half staff refers to the middle of the staff, and to close fighting distance (at which you are likely to hold your staff in the middle), just like half sword. A quarterstaff is about 6 to 9 feet long, and has no fixed length; the long staff can be up to 18 feet long but also has no fixed length. There is an obscure unit of measure called a staff (albeit from a later date) which is 9 feet. There is also the more common measure called the rod (or pole), which is 16 1/2 feet. None of these work out.

In short, the answer is we don't know, and the only way to find out for sure would be to dig up some obscure work (ideally 16th century) that tells us the reason. The only etymologies with the least bit of evidence are the quarter-cleft and quarter-gripped explanations, and neither of these is terribly convincing either.

HTH

[Stacy Clifford]

The most common explanation I've heard is the one based on gripping the lower quarter of the staff, although the one from splitting logs makes good sense because it sounds like a carpenter's term. They also made staffs from sapling trees though, so that's not necessarily a universal explanation. I'm not entirely sure where the term quarterstaff was first used, I checked Swetnam and Silver and both simply refer to "the staffe". Forgeng's translation of Meyer uses the word quarterstaff, but I'm not sure if that's a direct translation from the German or Forgeng's interpretation of an English equivalent. It's reasonably possible that quarterstaff is a later period term applied backward in time, much like "broadsword". I'd be interested to see more sources on this.

[Jon Pellett]

OED's first reference is from 1550. Silver doesn't use the term, but Swetnam does a couple of times, distinguishing between the quarterstaff and the long staff.

Meyer mostly calls it a "Stange" (staff), but he also uses "halbe Stange" (half staff) at least once.

Stacy, I think you are right that it gets applied backward in time a lot.

[Martin Austwick]

It's certainly an interesting discussion.

Personally I wonder if there might be some connection between the name of the weapon "quarterstaff" and the technique "quarter".

Nothing to back it up with though.

[Philip Sibbering]

Thanks one and all

As no one offered any supporting source material for my theory, I guess that is a dead end

You seem to confirm my concerns that the factual etymology is lost and now we are left with speculation!

While we are all speculating, could it be related to 'close-quarters' in the navy sense?

If 'staff' was derived from the German: see here, it seems a group of officers are named after the baton they carry and even in modern military some officers still carry a baton.

I imagine a ship's crew could be quite rowdy, would there be 'staff' (as in helpers) who would batons to break up fights? Would there be a heavy version of the baton kept in quarters?

This is wild speculation, but have you heard of any evidence that may point in this direction.

The staff was a very popular weapon in England, and England had a large navy. Is there any relation between the two?

I mean, if a navy term like 'close-quarters' could jump ship (cough ) to later mean hand to hand combat on terra firma*, could other naval terms do likewise? Could a 'quarter staff' originally be a naval term that shifted over to popular because of the dominance of the Royal Navy on British life at the time the term became first used?

If there any evidence to support this theory?

Philip

* After writing this post - I realised that 'terra firma' entered the popular use via the navy. There are lots of navy terms in British slang (and British derived slang) - 'mate' springs to mind

[Stacy Clifford]

The English Navy didn't rise to prominence until Elizabeth's time and the defeat of the Spanish Armada, and the staff was clearly a popular weapon in England well before then. Remember how prominent it is in the Robin Hood legends, which go back to at least the 1300s, though if Wikipedia is right none of the characters used a staff until 1503:

http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/teams/potter.htm

I can only find the word "staffe" in there though, no mention of quarter. Wikipedia also makes this mention: "Their social status [in the early ballads], as yeomen, is shown by their weapons; they use swords rather than quarterstaffs." If it was beneath a common yeoman to be seen with a staff at that time, then you'll probably find very little written record of it before then, at least in English. Terms with peasant origins are naturally going to be very difficult to trace.

[Philip Sibbering]

The English Navy didn't rise to prominence until Elizabeth's time and the defeat of the Spanish Armada, and the staff was clearly a popular weapon in England well before then.

I agree. The staff was a popular before then, but when did the term 'quarter staff' turn up? It seems to have turned after 'staff', and if 'staff' was used before, why add 'quarter to it?

Terms with peasant origins are naturally going to be very difficult to trace.

Seems to be so

Philip

[Stacy Clifford]

I wouldn't expect the addition of "quarter" to have naval origins simply because naval weapons have always had a tendency to be shorter exactly because of those tight quarters you mentioned, where there's not much room to swing anything, and I don't know of any reference to a quarterstaff in myth or manual where it's not considered to be at least the height of a man or more. The carpentry and grip explanations make more sense, or it could even be an obscure reference to how much they cost to buy (four for a penny or a shilling perhaps). No telling.

[Philip Sibbering]

not much room to swing anything

I was thinking more jabbing, but I think you are right, space would be a problem and a club would do. Perhaps stored by the quarter deck and used outside? Hmm, I'm grasping as straws.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, if you have any other ideas please let me know.

Philip