My first florysh attempt (Video) - comments?

[Stacy Clifford]

If you're in a bind low on the strong with the point too far forward to bring into play effectively, see-saw the point back and the pommel forward around the bind point and either pommel strike to the head or use your hilt to work his arms for a disarm or throw, or you can circle the pommel around behind his blade and bring your edge back around for an inside slice. And of course you're in a good position to half-sword at that distance too. Those close binds are where you really have to train yourself to remember to use all parts of the sword as a weapon and avoid getting stuck in cut & stab mode or wrestling mode exclusively.

[Jonathan Newhall]

So basically push on the hilt-end of the sword while remaining in the bind to get the pommel into play either for hooking into his arms for a throw, or in a hit to the head kind of action?

[Stacy Clifford]

Yes, you can hook his arms to throw or disarm him. Something else you can do at that range is hook his blade aside with your cross, which opens him up for attacks with either the pommel or the edge. Also remember that when you get inside like this that you can let go of your sword with one hand (usually your left if you're right handed) to grapple/pull/punch/shove/disarm while your sword hand pommels/slices/stabs him. This is usually quite fun to practice.

[Eric White]

Stacy,
Thanks for the use-all-parts-of-the-sword lesson. Well taken.

Greg,
You're example of the zorn on zorn combat was extremely helpful. I'm wholly unknowledgable about winding techniques, so binding is a complete mystery to me. I'll have to put some specific emphasis on winding in my studies. Thank you very much.

Jonathan N.,
I will amend the reliance on the middle cut. Your explanation was very thorough. Thanks!

Jonathan H.,
I recognize that the video is a drill, not free-play, however, I was not taking into account the difference between the two. I guess I was not recognizing the possibility of your opponent being able to readjust to your counter-cut after they've already committed themselves to the first cut. That must take some extreme reaction timing--amazing dexterity and quickness.

[Corey Roberts]

Hi Eric, great job for putting yourself out there to get critiqued. That is always a difficult thing to do.

First off, your energy and intent seems to be pretty good, so keep that up.

Footwork:
Often it seems you cut a lot of cuts, without ever moving your feet in time with the cut. When your weapon cuts, your feet should do something with the cut, not before it or after it, Most of the time that's going to be a passing step. Practice cutting taking passing steps forward and back to build that into muscle memory.

Right now a lot of your footwork tends to happen between cuts, or before your cuts, or after your cuts.


Guards:
Delete that middle guard thing from your repertoire as a primary guard. A proper Pflug is done off of either your right or left hip. The reason for this, is that standing with your hands centred in front of you leaves them very vulnerable to getting cut.

Ochs: Where is it? Throw some Ochs'es in there, cutting big Unterhauen from underneath you will discover yourself very naturally ending up in either right or left Ochs, and Ochs facilitates thrusting, something I didn't see a lot of in your florysh.

Alber, other than a very brief instance at the very end, you didn't spend much time in Alber. If you cut your scheitelhau all the way through instead of going back to that middle guard you will find yourself in Alber much more frequently.

Cuts:
One thing I noticed a lot about your cutting is you tend to drag the hilt around on your cuts and your blade follows. Instead you should be popping that point out there with some torque on the grip, and lead with your blade, not merely jerking the hilt around through the cuts. You want that point to arc out there first, because that's the part that goes in the other guy's face.

Your Mittelhauen are way too low. You do not see Mittelhauen delivered at waist level in the source literature. This is because when you cut like swinging a baseball bat an opponent can hit you in the head or arms, while you cannot reach them. This has to do with the natural angles formed in human biomechanics. An opponent can cut over the top of your Mittelhau and hit you in the head, while yours will fall short.


Keep up the good work and train hard! Once again, well done for putting yourself out for critique.

[Greg Coffman]

Hey, Greg, speaking of that situation (a mutual bind as opposed to an advantaged bind), I've been running into that situation a lot and what tends to happen is a bit of disorganized maneuvering of the blades and either an eventual disengage or it ends up with wrestling because it becomes too close. I know there are many techniques for dealing with binds (such as the Zornhau on Zornhau plays), but I'm having a hard time using them properly.

The thrust is insufficient because the bind is too close (we can't get the points around properly because they are too far forward), and sometimes one or the other of us can pull some angles properly and get in a duplieren or mutieren (I believe are the terms), or occasionally a good reversal cut, but there's just some issues with using actual established techniques based on what the opponent is doing. The real concern is what happens when the bind is too close to employ the Zornhau-Ort, but instead have to think of something else. Winding to ochs kind of works, but if he presses hard at the sword there's still no room to thrust, and I am not sure that a cut around the other side is permissable with that level of pressure on the blade because he may have time to reverse himself and cut me back (or at the very least reverse his sword and block/parry/set aside the other strike). The last point, of him being able to block the subsequent hit if I attempt to come at him from the other side with a cut, and ruling out the possibility of a thrust due to range, leaves me with very few options in this situation! Perhaps you could help with a suggestion?

Could you describe the bind some more? When a bind occurs, one of the things you have to instantaneously gage is distance (like you are doing at all times in the fight). Are you close enough to hit by taking a passing step forward? A step forward? Are you already in range? Are you crossed with both swords at the middle? Are you crossed with both swords on the strong? Are you at full extension forward with your arms? Are your arms and your opponents arms high? All of these things change what options you have in the bind.

If your point is beside his head, can you pull your hands back and thrust or cut? If you are uncomfortable with that distance, can you step back with a cut while remaining on the sword? Practice this. Start with the swords in a bind and see what things you can do. Practice binds at different distances. Practice closing in a bind and withdrawing in a bind. Practice moving from bind to grappling on the sword and grappling without the sword. Start wearing a dagger and practice drawing it. There is always something you can do. You just need experience and practice in the bind to learn all the things and develop fulhen(feeling) to sense what you can do when.

[Jonathan Newhall]

Could you describe the bind some more? When a bind occurs, one of the things you have to instantaneously gage is distance (like you are doing at all times in the fight). Are you close enough to hit by taking a passing step forward? A step forward? Are you already in range? Are you crossed with both swords at the middle? Are you crossed with both swords on the strong? Are you at full extension forward with your arms? Are your arms and your opponents arms high? All of these things change what options you have in the bind.

It tends to be a bind strong against strong, or perhaps nearer to the middle of both swords, making it too close for a thrust and generally too strong a bind to work some other techniques I've tried.

If your point is beside his head, can you pull your hands back and thrust or cut? If you are uncomfortable with that distance, can you step back with a cut while remaining on the sword? Practice this. Start with the swords in a bind and see what things you can do. Practice binds at different distances. Practice closing in a bind and withdrawing in a bind. Practice moving from bind to grappling on the sword and grappling without the sword. Start wearing a dagger and practice drawing it. There is always something you can do. You just need experience and practice in the bind to learn all the things and develop fulhen(feeling) to sense what you can do when.

Well, in this case I am trying to find out those certain things I can be doing at this particular range, and any other suggestions besides Stacy's are of course welcome

[Eric White]

Hi Eric, great job for putting yourself out there to get critiqued. That is always a difficult thing to do.

First off, your energy and intent seems to be pretty good, so keep that up.

Footwork:
Often it seems you cut a lot of cuts, without ever moving your feet in time with the cut. When your weapon cuts, your feet should do something with the cut, not before it or after it, Most of the time that's going to be a passing step. Practice cutting taking passing steps forward and back to build that into muscle memory.

Right now a lot of your footwork tends to happen between cuts, or before your cuts, or after your cuts.


Guards:
Delete that middle guard thing from your repertoire as a primary guard. A proper Pflug is done off of either your right or left hip. The reason for this, is that standing with your hands centred in front of you leaves them very vulnerable to getting cut.

Ochs: Where is it? Throw some Ochs'es in there, cutting big Unterhauen from underneath you will discover yourself very naturally ending up in either right or left Ochs, and Ochs facilitates thrusting, something I didn't see a lot of in your florysh.

Alber, other than a very brief instance at the very end, you didn't spend much time in Alber. If you cut your scheitelhau all the way through instead of going back to that middle guard you will find yourself in Alber much more frequently.

Cuts:
One thing I noticed a lot about your cutting is you tend to drag the hilt around on your cuts and your blade follows. Instead you should be popping that point out there with some torque on the grip, and lead with your blade, not merely jerking the hilt around through the cuts. You want that point to arc out there first, because that's the part that goes in the other guy's face.

Your Mittelhauen are way too low. You do not see Mittelhauen delivered at waist level in the source literature. This is because when you cut like swinging a baseball bat an opponent can hit you in the head or arms, while you cannot reach them. This has to do with the natural angles formed in human biomechanics. An opponent can cut over the top of your Mittelhau and hit you in the head, while yours will fall short.


Keep up the good work and train hard! Once again, well done for putting yourself out for critique.

Corey,
Thank you so much for the critique. All points are well taken. A few questions:
1) Mittelhau - Where is the optimum target if not waist level?
2) Ochs - This guard seems so awkward to me. What types of actions do you personally find yourself delivering from ochs? Any favorites? Any drills from ochs you could recommend to get me more comfortable?
3) Footwork - I've just recently become an ARMA member (extremely excited and grateful for acceptance, by the way) and I'm working hard on training myself properly with tiprogressions. Are there any other exercises I can do to enhance my footwork?

Thanks again for taking time to offer the critique. Once I feel I've improved my florysh I'll post another vid. The only way to learn is to have someone more experienced offer insight.

[Greg Coffman]

Corey,
Thank you so much for the critique. All points are well taken. A few questions:
1) Mittelhau - Where is the optimum target if not waist level?
2) Ochs - This guard seems so awkward to me. What types of actions do you personally find yourself delivering from ochs? Any favorites? Any drills from ochs you could recommend to get me more comfortable?
3) Footwork - I've just recently become an ARMA member (extremely excited and grateful for acceptance, by the way) and I'm working hard on training myself properly with tiprogressions. Are there any other exercises I can do to enhance my footwork?

1) The head, shoulders, and neck area is the target for 80% of cuts including mittelhaus.
2) You can cut every cut in the book from ochs. Practice doing so. Practice cutting zornhaus over and over again with a step. Practice cutting zwerchaus from right ochs to left ochs to right ochs, etc, with passing steps. Practice cutting unterhaus from right ochs to left ochs to right ochs, etc. Practice going from ochs to hangen ort. Practice thrusting.
3) Put the sword down and work on all the possible combinations of footwork you can think of. Pass forward, pass back. Step forward, step back. Repetition is the key. Find a line on the ground (like at a tennis court or basketball court) and do footwork exercises up and down the line keeping one foot on one side and the other foot on the other side. There is nothing that we do that doesn't require good footwork. Some drills specifically target other things but each drill can be an exercise in footwork if that is what you focus on during the drill.

[Greg Coffman]

It tends to be a bind strong against strong, or perhaps nearer to the middle of both swords, making it too close for a thrust and generally too strong a bind to work some other techniques I've tried.

If you are middle to middle then you are not too close for a thrust. If you are just a little too close, then pull your hands back and then thrust. Step back if you need to while doing this. Or step back and cut while remaining on the sword. If you are too close to execute the particular technique you want, then change the distance!

Well, in this case I am trying to find out those certain things I can be doing at this particular range, and any other suggestions besides Stacy's are of course welcome

Practice standing in a bind with your opponent and developing a sense of how you can manipulate his sword to bring your edge or point to bear. All the cuts still work from the bind. Try a zwerchau. If that doesn't work then try a shietelhau. If that doesn't work the cut somewhere else. If you are really really close, one of my favorite things to do is to just put my pommel in my opponent's face. Then cut.

[Stacy Clifford]

2) Ochs - This guard seems so awkward to me. What types of actions do you personally find yourself delivering from ochs? Any favorites? Any drills from ochs you could recommend to get me more comfortable?

I find with most beginners that ochs is the hardest guard for them to get consistently correct, particularly on the right, though there's nothing fancy to it. Although it's tiring to hold for a long time, there shouldn't be anything uncomfortable about it. Take another look at the images on this page:

http://www.thearma.org/essays/StancesIntro.htm

Pay particular attention to the position of the elbows in relation to the hilt. In right ochs, your right forearm should be parallel to the hilt and on the inside, palm facing away from you. For some reason, most people start off wanting to grip it around the outside with their elbow sticking up above the pommel and palm facing down, and this is considerably more uncomfortable and awkward, but I swear almost everybody does it in the beginning. Left ochs generally works best (in my opinion) with your left hand trailing behind the pommel as if hanging from a knot in a rope, as shown in the picture. It's not wrong, however, if you want to choke up a little, but the forearm should still remain parallel with the hilt as shown. Also make sure your torso and hips remain facing forward and don't rotate too far to the side. Your shoulders should wind up at about a 45 degree angle to your target on both sides. Combine this with good footwork and your cuts should become much more comfortable from this guard.

[Eric White]

I find with most beginners that ochs is the hardest guard for them to get consistently correct, particularly on the right, though there's nothing fancy to it. Although it's tiring to hold for a long time, there shouldn't be anything uncomfortable about it. Take another look at the images on this page:

http://www.thearma.org/essays/StancesIntro.htm

Pay particular attention to the position of the elbows in relation to the hilt. In right ochs, your right forearm should be parallel to the hilt and on the inside, palm facing away from you. For some reason, most people start off wanting to grip it around the outside with their elbow sticking up above the pommel and palm facing down, and this is considerably more uncomfortable and awkward, but I swear almost everybody does it in the beginning. Left ochs generally works best (in my opinion) with your left hand trailing behind the pommel as if hanging from a knot in a rope, as shown in the picture. It's not wrong, however, if you want to choke up a little, but the forearm should still remain parallel with the hilt as shown. Also make sure your torso and hips remain facing forward and don't rotate too far to the side. Your shoulders should wind up at about a 45 degree angle to your target on both sides. Combine this with good footwork and your cuts should become much more comfortable from this guard.

Ochs is still front-facing? Ahh, that makes a world of difference. I had been facing with my torso away, in a side stance. I've printed the stances essay with pictures for easy reference. Thanks!

Greg,
80% of the cuts are to the head, neck, and shoulders? I can't imagine that these are the targets of an unterhau. What about the legs? Obviously a cut to the head/neck would be a killing blow, so I understand the importance there.

[Stacy Clifford]

Unterhaus are usually going to target the belly and chest, but you can easily throw them higher to target the head, which is actually common in single sword. Mittelhaus are also belly to chest level usually, but you won't use them as a first attack; rather as a beat or countercut or perhaps a slice underneath as you retreat from a bind, but usually used in combination with another move. Cuts to the legs are great, take them if they're available, but keep in mind this little quote from Swetnam's staff section:

"...but if a thrust bee made below or above the knee, plucke up thy legge, and either thrust with him, or keepe up thy Staffe to defend thy upper part, which are the killing places, rather than to turne him downe to defend thy legge or foote, wherein is not so great danger of death as the body being hit..."

[Jonathan Newhall]

A big thing to remember is, geometrically, opponents of the same size using a cut to the leg vs a cut to the neck, the man cutting to the neck will always have the superior range and therefore, in theory, never end up dead, or even missing that leg the other guy was aiming for.

Granted, this is on opponents of the same size with the same weapon, so of course mileage will vary in how effective legshots are.

Also something this has enlightened me on is that my ochs is much too sideways facing (shoulder in front), I'll correct that as soon as possible

[Greg Coffman]

A big thing to remember is, geometrically, opponents of the same size using a cut to the leg vs a cut to the neck, the man cutting to the neck will always have the superior range and therefore, in theory, never end up dead, or even missing that leg the other guy was aiming for.

Granted, this is on opponents of the same size with the same weapon, so of course mileage will vary in how effective legshots are.

Also something this has enlightened me on is that my ochs is much too sideways facing (shoulder in front), I'll correct that as soon as possible

Yes, the leg is further away because your sword is attached way up high to your shoulder. By the time you get close enough to hit your opponents legs, your opponent has been in range to hit your face for quite a while. While the sword is used to cover the upper body, the legs are covered by distance. But if your opponent waits to see what you do and allows you to get close without attacking you, then by all means, cut to the legs. Often we will do this with a lunge and by letting one hand off the sword in order to get more range. This is called das gayszlen, "the spring" and is depicted by Talhoffer on plate 10 of his 1467 fechtbuk.
http://thearma.org/talhoffer/t10.htm