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For Historical European Fighting Arts, Weaponry, & Armor

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Vincent Le Chevalier
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Postby Vincent Le Chevalier » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:13 am

Stacy Clifford wrote:I might make an exception for some rapier footwork, since I've never seen anybody do an inquartata to do anything except stab somebody.


You know, I think I did an inquartata once in a school restaurant to save my lunch tray from collision... But I wouldn't say that's a common occurrence even for me :)

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Toke Krebs Niclasen
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Postby Toke Krebs Niclasen » Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:08 pm

While looking at the guy with two sword telling the camera how awesome he was, I was wondering why nobody else in history thought of that.

Jonathan Newhall
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Postby Jonathan Newhall » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:06 pm

Using two swords? Or telling people how awesome they are? Or some combo of both? :p

Toke Krebs Niclasen
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Postby Toke Krebs Niclasen » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:00 am

Jonathan Newhall wrote:Using two swords? Or telling people how awesome they are? Or some combo of both? :p


I am sure there is a abundant supply of people telling others how awesome they are. :)
The two swords are a lot rarer, and if it was such a great idea why have none of the people with parrying dagger and rapier mentioned it?

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Steven Ott
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Postby Steven Ott » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:58 am

Thai sword fighting is two sword oriented. I think there is a vid of Aldi using two rapiers. I think the rapier and dagger combo was more popular because two swords would be cumbersome and the dagger is better when your opponent gets close since the rapier wasn't designed for in-close fighting. And in earlier periods it seems that the europeans preferred a sheild
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Jonathan Newhall
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Postby Jonathan Newhall » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:31 am

Toke Krebs Niclasen wrote:
Jonathan Newhall wrote:Using two swords? Or telling people how awesome they are? Or some combo of both? :p


I am sure there is a abundant supply of people telling others how awesome they are. :)
The two swords are a lot rarer, and if it was such a great idea why have none of the people with parrying dagger and rapier mentioned it?


That's exactly the thought process I would use. If it is so good, why does nobody use two swords? Chances are that over the last four thousand years it would've been figured out!

Dylan Asbury
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Get a load of these dudes.

Postby Dylan Asbury » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:03 pm

Check these guys out. They're so sloppy, I bet they haven't trained in months! The guy on the left even looks like he trains...rapier! :roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKQtlJ-iI38

(I'm the guy on the left. and it is silly. But consider it a "test run." Forgive the sloppiness. Enjoy!)
"It means so much more than just sticking them with the pointy end"

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Vincent Le Chevalier
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Postby Vincent Le Chevalier » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:04 pm

Jonathan Newhall wrote:
Toke Krebs Niclasen wrote:The two swords are a lot rarer, and if it was such a great idea why have none of the people with parrying dagger and rapier mentioned it?
That's exactly the thought process I would use. If it is so good, why does nobody use two swords? Chances are that over the last four thousand years it would've been figured out!

Actually references to two swords being used at the same time can be found in period sources, though generally I don't think it was pointed out as more efficient... See this page:
http://www.schoolofthesword.com/case.html

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Stacy Clifford
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Postby Stacy Clifford » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:24 pm

Yes, there are many discussions about this on the forum. It's not that the masters had nothing to say about two swords or that it was never used, it's that the masters recognized that you had to be ambidextrous to make it work, and thus the majority of their students wouldn't be well advised to try it in an actual fight. I'm sure plenty tried it in the schools and found out how difficult it really was.
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Adam Bodorics
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Postby Adam Bodorics » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:52 am

Just mentioning - FMA does use two swords, though they are more like "shortswords". Kalarippayattu (sp?) and Gatka also uses two swords, though those are sabers in most cases and the method is very different than WMA. But even in these systems sword+buckler, sword+dagger and single sword seems to be more widespread.
I GUESS that these systems using two swords more than WMA MAY have something to do with the much lower quantity of armour used there.

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Stacy Clifford
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Postby Stacy Clifford » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:43 am

Adam Bodorics wrote:Just mentioning - FMA does use two swords, though they are more like "shortswords". Kalarippayattu (sp?) and Gatka also uses two swords, though those are sabers in most cases and the method is very different than WMA. But even in these systems sword+buckler, sword+dagger and single sword seems to be more widespread.
I GUESS that these systems using two swords more than WMA MAY have something to do with the much lower quantity of armour used there.


I think the longer type of swords Europeans were using probably also had something to do with it. Two cut & thrusts are harder to control and require more precision to use effectively than, say, two messers. In Europe there were too many long weapons (I mean 3 ft. or longer in the case of swords) running around to make two short ones look like a very attractive option I would imagine, whereas that may not have been the case in SE Asia.
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Jonathan Newhall
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Postby Jonathan Newhall » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:58 am

Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
Jonathan Newhall wrote:
Toke Krebs Niclasen wrote:The two swords are a lot rarer, and if it was such a great idea why have none of the people with parrying dagger and rapier mentioned it?
That's exactly the thought process I would use. If it is so good, why does nobody use two swords? Chances are that over the last four thousand years it would've been figured out!

Actually references to two swords being used at the same time can be found in period sources, though generally I don't think it was pointed out as more efficient... See this page:
http://www.schoolofthesword.com/case.html

Regards,


I am aware that it does exist, but there are very few manuals for, say, dual rapier, as opposed to rapier and buckler, or rapier and dagger. The lack of prevalence of the dual-sword style suggests that it was not the world's most effective by any means.

Tim Ingersoll
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Postby Tim Ingersoll » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:01 pm

I was watching the guy in the first video and the first time I watched it I was thinking that I should be embarassed for him, but then when I watched it for the 4th time with an open mind I began to wonder if this was ment to be traditional or if it was merely a freestyle exercise, as I noted that he made it a point to freeze momentarily at specific points as if he was checking off a list and hittng all the required movements and the hesitation was to allow the judges to see that he had hit each required movement in his routine.

Just an observation.

Tim
"When at first I took up the sword, I met it's soul. It taught me about myself and I shall never be the same."
Tim Ingersoll, 2009

Tim Ingersoll
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Postby Tim Ingersoll » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:11 pm

Tom Kinder wrote:well those guys are both better than this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InqY8tJSQG0

I'm actually embarrassed for him


It would seem that his love of the Forgotten Realms series and Drizzt Do'Urden has gone to his head.


Gasp!!!!
Last edited by Tim Ingersoll on Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
"When at first I took up the sword, I met it's soul. It taught me about myself and I shall never be the same."

Tim Ingersoll, 2009

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Corey Roberts
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Postby Corey Roberts » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:47 pm

Wow, that last guy, I really really really want to just smack in the head with a nice Zwerch.
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