Help with Auerswald

[Joshua Eads]

Hi everyone, new here and getting my feet wet in Ringen.

I've started working through Auerswald with James Klock's translation, and some of the wording can be a bit ambiguous. It's a great resource, but it seems like his first priority is staying as literal as possible with the German translation.

Does anyone know of any sources for alternate English translations, either published or on the web...or for that matter, translations of plates 1-77 of the unarmed section of Mair, which I gather from my research are the same techniques.

I've got Klock's translation, and I've compiled a file comparing that translation and a translation of both Auerswald and the corresponding plates from Mair by Keith Myers, but only up to plate 30.

Any guidance would be much appreciated!

-Josh

...one specific that pops to mind, can anyone clarify the arm break depicted on plate 59? The wrestlers are depicted from the rear and it's hard to tell from either the illustration or the text exactly what's going on with the arms.

[Nicholas Moore]

A lot of the techniques in the Nuremberg manuals will overlap between sources. So if your having trouble with Mair, take a look through Codex Wallerstein and Durer as well.

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Nuremberg_Group

[Jaron Bernstein]

Hi everyone, new here and getting my feet wet in Ringen.

I've started working through Auerswald with James Klock's translation, and some of the wording can be a bit ambiguous. It's a great resource, but it seems like his first priority is staying as literal as possible with the German translation.

Does anyone know of any sources for alternate English translations, either published or on the web...or for that matter, translations of plates 1-77 of the unarmed section of Mair, which I gather from my research are the same techniques.

I've got Klock's translation, and I've compiled a file comparing that translation and a translation of both Auerswald and the corresponding plates from Mair by Keith Myers, but only up to plate 30.

Any guidance would be much appreciated!

-Josh

...one specific that pops to mind, can anyone clarify the arm break depicted on plate 59? The wrestlers are depicted from the rear and it's hard to tell from either the illustration or the text exactly what's going on with the arms.

We are mostly through Von Aeurswald. I will look up my notes when I get home.

[Jaron Bernstein]

My mistake. My interpretive efforts are only up to plate 53. I can offer some opinions on plates before 53 if you have questions.

[Joshua Eads]

sure!

I'd be interested in seeing what you have on plates 8-9, 23, and which other technique in your estimation is being set up by manipulating the thumb in plate 34?

I'm sort of making it a pet project to produce an edition with some sort of logical organization in the order of the plates, listing of corresponding terminology from modern grappling and so forth. Any input is welcome and I'll gladly share the results when it's finished.

[Sal Bertucci]

Have you ever read "Hand to Hand Combat" by Keith Myers? It was made before many of the manuals were translated, so in that sense it is somewhat dated, but is very comprehensive. You can download it online.

[Joshua Eads]

Have you ever read "Hand to Hand Combat" by Keith Myers? It was made before many of the manuals were translated, so in that sense it is somewhat dated, but is very comprehensive. You can download it online.

That book has been a great help with a lot of this stuff.

Ok, as for the arm break in question:

Klock's Translation:
Lockwrestling
from which comes an armbreak.
When I come with my left arm over his left arm
then I must come with my arm high between his legs
then I stretch his left arm over it
then it must break
or be trapped.

The plate shows the person executing the arm break's back, so you can't see what his arms are doing. so my (tentative) interpretation is like this.

Basically from what I can deduce, you grab the opponent's left wrist, step in with your right foot and bring your right arm up underneath his left arm, levering his left arm over your right.

...seems to me like a logical extension would be to use your right arm to push him over backwards while still holding the left arm.

Am I too far off base here?

[Joshua Eads]

Scratch that.

What if the plate shows the directions reversed?

in which case , you grab the opponent's right arm with your right and as you step in, raising your elbow and pulling the opponent's arm downward to wrench his right arm over your right arm, possibly while using your left to control his.

[Joshua Eads]

Quick update,

going with my first interpretation after finding a plate that looks similar in Durer.

Quickly noticing that although the plates in Mair and Auerswald match up, the tecniques being described don't always. It's great when Mair extends the play, adding counters and counter-counters, but not so much when he talks about something completely different.

I slowly and laboriously translated plate 59 of Mair, and it goes something like:

59. Ein Schloss Ringen. Steps he then with his right thigh between your feet, so grasp with your right hand over his chest,
near his left shoulder. and with your left catch his left and pull with it him well into you. Pull with it well into you and press strongly down with your chin well upon his right shoulder, and strongly downward in over your left thigh you push him backwards.

....no expert, but I think I got the gist of it, and it describes something different. The offensive and defensive wrestlers in the plates are the opposite.

[Jaron Bernstein]

sure!

I'd be interested in seeing what you have on plates 8-9, 23, and which other technique in your estimation is being set up by manipulating the thumb in plate 34?

I'm sort of making it a pet project to produce an edition with some sort of logical organization in the order of the plates, listing of corresponding terminology from modern grappling and so forth. Any input is welcome and I'll gladly share the results when it's finished.

Sorry about the delay. This is what I think plate 8-9 are. Look at FVA's left arm. To make plate 9 work FVA locks the other fellow's right elbow by pushing it up and to FVA's right. Then it is a simple matter for FVA to push the other guy to FVA's left and down over FVA's left leg. The key to making it work is you have to get the elbow lock correct. If you have a training partner play with that and you will see what I mean.

Plate 23 works by two opposing forces. FVA is pushing the other fellow's neck back with his chin while at the same time pulling the other guy's groin (or belt if you are not harm your training partners) towards him.

Plate 34 is the classic firemans carry throw that can be found in every grappling art I am aware of.

FVA plate 59 is the one in the book that I can't for the life of me figure out, but I think I have the rest of them if you have any questions.