Using daggers to effectively parry larger weapons?

[Guest]

This has all been a great help to me. I've found that displacing with a dagger is very difficult still, since I don't have a lot of blade length to control the motion with. I usually need the aid of my second dagger once my opponent makes the crescent motion with her sword to get away, or it will hit me in the legs. Practice practice practice, I suppose.

I can usually jump in far enough to stop a weapon at point 1 or 2, which works good even when it is being swung fairly quick.

As for that "oh s***!", static block, there is one you can do if you use TWO daggers and it will work on any kind of swing motion against any size weapon. I've found if your opponent is swinging (in this case, let's say overhead) at you, you can position the dagger in your left hand so it is running parallel to the ground, take the dagger in your right hand and brace the tip of the left dagger agains the guard and the blade, and you can effectively *catch* very strong blows from very large weapons in this manner, assuming your arms are strong enough. I've tested this out with my friends and it works very well, but you lose the advantage of being able to parry and strike in one movement, which is the greatest benefit of two-weapon styles. Still, it's much better when you get caught at a distance than holding up one dagger and having the blow just push it aside. Heh

Robert

[Jake_Norwood]

Robert-

What you describe is a strange combination of Kron (the vertical position) and St. George's guard (the horizontal). St. George's guard is a bad position to be in. Against a steel sword swung by someone trying to do you harm, I'd be a little hesitant about doing what you describe.

That doesn't mean that it (a) won't work or (b) can't be improved. Try it like this: agressivley "catch" the blow in an X-block position very close to your opponent's hilt (as close as you can get it) and then re-direct the blow with the knife facing your opponent instead of stopping it. Kill him with the knife closest to you.

I reccomend John Clement's "Renaissance Swordsmanship" book for tips on doing this same thing with sword and dagger. A lot will apply to what you're trying to do.

Jake

[Guest]

Sure enough St. George can parry any vertical blow that a parry could stop, as long as it is parried with the edge of the forte, the flat St. George resulting in wrist injury. BUT if you want to use St. George with a dagger agaist a long sword or axe, Jake is absolutely right: the parry is not meant to do that. Long sword blows are often too powerfull to be stopped interposing your blade in the path of the blow, even if you're using a long sword yourself, let alone with a puny dagger. If you use daggers of short sword size (coustille, cinquedea), you can try to displace cuts, if not, better to simply avoid blows altogether. Having done some sword and dagger against long sword, my impression is that a direct dagger block on the long sword is fantasy, better use a large dagger and hit into the blow at an angle or cross parry, but in the latter case the long sword guy can feint and then drill you badly once you're waiting his cut with crossed blades.
Carlo

[Guest]

Yare,

Please don't feel as though i'm making fun of you, because I'm not...But what possessed you to want to do this in the first place? Other than the fact it might be cool-looking? The truth is, while this sort of thing might look cool in the movies, it's really not all that practical. If you wish to engage in ambidextrous fight with two bladed weapons, I advise sword and dagger, rather than dagger paired with dagger or even a "brace" of swords or rapiers; while the latter were both known, it was pretty rare, and I dare say not all that efficient. The sword should be used to set aside edge blows, as well as to strike. The dagger should be relagated to parrying only thrusts, (for as George Silver said, "a child could put aside the force of a thrust," or something like that). The sword and dagger compliment eachother greatly not only for the reason stated above, but becuase they both have different ranges. With two daggers, you will constantly be forced to close in ever more closely, at your peril. With two swords, if your opponent gets too close, or comes to grips, it may be difficult to use a longer blade, let alone two. You see? With sword and dagger, one gets the best of both worlds. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

Have fun in your experimentations, and let me know if you discover anything cool.

Your friend,

B.

[Guest]

I disagree with you on the matter of the double swords. If you follow Di Grassi and keep it simple, not looking for fancy combinations, but just providing yourself a good defence and the opportunity of a lethal thrust, you will usually get both at the same time. While I'm no expert of Di Grassi, I used his double sword (John said me it was the double sword style to look at) style enough to see it's potential. You don't have to wave swords around much, just use geometry and no one will ever come close to you, some opponents feel so frustrated when confronted with this style, that they start to do foolish things and render your task easier.
Later we find another impressive style, case of falchions, practiced by the prize fighting gladiators of late 1600-early 1700, I know little of it, but again keeping it simple and using backsword basics (the best guard seems to be the double outside), you get a solid line covering and a good cut at once.
Double swords rocks <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> , sword and dagger and even sword and buckler do not compare, in my opinion.
Carlo

[TimSheetz]

HI Brandon,

I don't know about choosing to fight a sword with two daggers.. but I do not think it unusual at all for someone using knives to decide to use two of them... preferably against an unarmed opponent.. but if their friend carrying a sword shows up, you suddenly are in the position of having brought knives to a sword fight... (why does that sound familiar? )

Fighting with two knives is a good idea as you can use one for a defensive action while simultaneously cutting/stabbing with the other... it's all good.

Tim

[Guest]

Tim,

I was referring to two daggers against something like longsword or swodd and buckler...not against an unarmed opponent.

Carlo,

Two swords is kinda cool, but not terribly practical as far as I'm concerned. I'd much rather have something with two ranges if I'm using a pair of bladed weapons.