To against rapier,is it good to choose a side sword?

[YIzhe LIU]

To defeat the rapier and rapier with dagger,It is good to choose side sword and side sword with dagger?


I do not know if it would be take advantage to against rapier?What is your idea?

THANKS A LOT

[Stacy Clifford]

You certainly can defeat rapier with side sword (with or without dagger). Silver is worth a read on that subject, as he has pretty strong opinions on it:

http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/GSilver.htm

http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/BriefInstruct.htm

In reality it's possible to beat almost any weapon with almost any other weapon if you know how to fight with both and have a lot of guts, but some are harder to win with than others. Sword and buckler is the most versatile combo in my experience; it can face anything with a good chance of winning.

[Tomm Skotner]

That would be one way to do it... However, there are perhaps better weapons for the job.

First of all, yes, I would say that a sword and dagger would be a viable choice of weapon against a rapier and dagger. And I would even say that it would give you an advantage, provided you know how to use it. But it would not stack the odds in your favour quite as much as some other weapons you could choose (given the opportunity to do so).

But why do you ask? It is hard to answer the question fully without some context.

Why sword and dagger specifically? What are your alternatives?

A spear springs to mind as a good weapon. It is two-handed and has got a longer reach than the rapier. A sword and round shield also seems good against a rapier. It would be hard for him to find an opening for a thrust so you could most likely just charge him down. But these are not the kinds of weapons you would carry around on an everyday basis.

To put the matter on its point, a bow will be your best choice against any melee weapon because you can stay out of reach; you can hurt him, but he cannot hurt you. But that is not very good plan for defending yourself against unexpected assaults on the street. Because in that case, you are most likely at close quarters right from the start.

So what are the constraints on the action here? Is it a duel? Is it a man-hunt? Are we on the battlefield? Or are we just making sure we are prepared for anything on the way home?

[Jonathan Hill]

As Stacy said you can defeat any sword with any other, but in my opinion some blades defiantly have an advantage over others in single unarmored combat. If you traced the development of the Rapier it basically is a side sword that is optimized for single combat.

**Warning massive generalizations will follow**
Comparing the Hanwei Side sword to the Hanwei Torino (yes it’s a flawed comparison but the basics differences would be close enough for this point, and the measurements are easy to find on a quick web search.)

Lets start with the length of the blade. Side Sword – 30 inch, Rapier 36.5 inch. So the rapier has a good six inches on the side sword, Advantage Rapier in initial range.

Weight: Side Sword 2.8lb Rapier 2.5lb Rapier is slightly lighter, but what really matters is the point of balance which I can’t find for the Side Sword. The Point of Balance of the Rapier is back towards the grip allowing a very quick manipulation of the point, or it’s very fast on moving the blade around for a thrust. A side sword is further out giving it better cutting ability, and while it can still be a strong thruster it is slower than the Rapier in ‘moving the point around.’

Tactics: A side sword is more of a cut and thrust meaning most people will start with trying to cut. A Rapier is a thruster pure and simple. The rapier fighter will do half thrusts at the extent of his distance to keep the Side sword fighter away, while a side sword generally want to get inside the distance of the Rapier to get at his opponent.

To sum it up I’ll refer to a fight I had a while ago, me on Rapier my opponent on a Basket hilt (which will be similar to a Side Sword in size and usage. My opponent started rushing me, I did a reverse lunge/stop thrust, (hitting him with a thrust and stepping back at the same time.) I did this five times, hitting him each time as he charged at me, until I ran out of room and found a wall at my back. At which time he delivered a cut to my leg that would have gone through the bone if not removed it based on the bruise I had. With sharp blades it is entirely possible that he would have been able to take five thrusts from a rapier in the two to three seconds it took to charge across the room at me. He still would have dropped dead in the next five minutes, but he would have taken me with him.

If you want to defeat a Rapier use a Small Sword, nasty little things are a real pain to fight.

Edit: Also I would much rather use Rapier and Dagger vs Side Sword and Dagger. If it’s Rapier only vs Side Sword only, once he is inside my point, meaning too close for me to thrust, I have to move to grapple, and he has a very large advantage. If I have a dagger, now I have a fall back weapon for when he gets too close. I’ll take Rapier and Dagger any day against a shorter weapon.

[LafayetteCCurtis]

By the time the rapier and dagger became an established style, guns had also become a well-established weapon family in Europe, and honestly I'd rather use something like a decent arquebus to face down a rapier-and-dagger man if I had the choice....

[Allen Johnson]

I love me some Silver and see eye to eye with many of his views of the faults and limitations of the rapier...and I love rapier. Whenever you have a question like this it really just boils down to who is holding the weapon. There is no unbeatable formula for one beating the other. Sometimes the technique is flawless, but dumb luck wins. Things just happen in a fight...