is there a difference between a messer and a short sword?

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Stacy Clifford
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Postby Stacy Clifford » Wed May 11, 2011 10:05 am

Benedict Haefeli wrote:
A single hander with a short grip/pommel with suite you better when using most things in your offhand.


So there were "longsword" designs specifically designed for one hand? Then what has led to them being called longswords as opposed to the previously discussed side swords? I imagine they are generally longer, especially if designed for mounted combat, but with a shorter hilt?


No, a longsword by definition has room on the handle for both hands. He's just saying that a sword made for one hand works better when you're trying to use a weapon in each hand, which I agree with. A longsword can work in one hand, but it's not ideal for that method of use.
Last edited by Stacy Clifford on Wed May 11, 2011 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LafayetteCCurtis » Wed May 11, 2011 11:26 am

Benedict Haefeli wrote:Do you happen to know any manual where fighting with a "true" single-hand sword is described, or were they only used in combination with a buckler or shield?


Scroll down that Wiktenauer page (on Talhoffer's stuff for one-handed stuff) and you'll see that some of the illustrations for the Messer techniques show typical double-edged one-handed swords instead. This shows us that the two are largely used in a similar fashion, perhaps with some minimal modifications (such as cuts that would have been received on the sword's flat could also be received on the Messer's unsharpened back).

Therefore, we don't really have any manuals devoted to the "true" one-handed sword--but then we don't have any manuals exclusively dealing with the Messer either. The manuals we do have describe techniques that could be used effectively with either weapon, with the exception of a very few techniques that may only be practical with the single-edged Messer (and I'm pretty sure there are people who would dispute this by saying that there are interpretations of those techniques that would work with double-edged swords too).

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Postby Benedict Haefeli » Wed May 11, 2011 2:23 pm

Thanks a lot guys, this has all been very helpfull. I think I got it all together for the moment...


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