Talhoffer, Crecy, Sempach, or Regent

[James Brazas]

Would all of you be able to explain some of the practical differences between the Albion Talhoffer, Crecy, and Sempach?

I know that the Talhoffer is a Type XV, so I'm guessing it's the lightest, most nimble, best at thrusting, but worst at cutting.

Since the Crecy is a Type XVI, I'm guessing it's the sturdiest of the three and the best cutter, but probably not as nimble or good at thrusting.

I'm not exactly sure what the Sempach is like in comparison, but I imagine it would be somewhere between the previous two since it's a Type XVII.

Then there's always the Regent, the Type XVIII. From what I hear, it's great as both a cutter and a thruster. Yet the 5.25" balance point and the 3.5 lb. weight makes it sound like it would be less agile, more blade-heavy, and possibly slower. Is this true? Also, how is the fish-tail pommel? It looks less wieldly than the scent-stopper pommel.

My questions are:

How different is the handling between the four blades, what is the difference in nimbleness and ease of moving quickly between various guards and attacks, etc.?

How different are they in performance as thrusters and as cutters?

How would each likely perform against unarmored enemies, bone, maille, and harnisfechten/full plate?

Finally, would the Liechtenauer or the Meyer be a better analog to the above swords for safe light sparring? I've practiced with both the Liechtenauer and the Meyer, so I know how they handle pretty well.

My goal is a longsword with emphasis on speed and nimbleness, but I don't want to sacrifice too much power in thrusting or cutting.

On a related note, what Albion arming swords would you recommend? The Squire seems interesting to me.

[Jaron Bernstein]

I own a Talhoffer and Sempach and will speak on them. The Talhoffer is a wickedly quick thruster with really fine point agility. This is a very fast blade. The Sempach has a slightly greater blade presence in terms of cutting, but it is still more of a thrust oriented (my guess is about 50/50) blade than something like a Baron or Duke. The Sempach has a perhaps more robust blade (hexagonal cross section) than the Talhoffer (diamond cross section). I would say that the Sempach would server slightly better as an anti-armor blade, but only by degree. The Sempach is still fast, but not as fast as the Talhoffer. That said the Sempach is a arguably a better cutter. I would emphasize these two swords are not radically different: more like the diffference between A and C than A to Z.

[James Brazas]

Thanks Jaron Bernstein!

They sound like they'd both be really good blades.

From what you are saying, the differences between the Talhoffer and Sempach are slight. The Talhoffer would be faster and better at thrusting, but not by much. The Sempach would be the better cutter and the more sturdy one, but not by much.

Is that correct?

Would you or anyone else know whether the Regent would likewise be very similar in feel? The reviews of the Regent I've seen have said it's fantastic both as a cutter and thruster. It's also an absolutely gorgeous sword. Yet I'm still a little leary of the 5.25" balance point. Would that make it slower at all relative to the Sempach? Would it be most similar in handling to the Crecy, Talhoffer, or Semphach?

Right now, I'm leaning towards the Regent provided that it's fast enough. If not, I would probably get the Sempach. After that right now, I'm thinking my third option would be the Talhoffer, then the Crecy fourth.

Of course, the best way would be for me to handle the swords myself. I guess there's only so much that can be communicated merely via text.

[Jaron Bernstein]

[quote="

They sound like they'd both be really good blades.

From what you are saying, the differences between the Talhoffer and Sempach are slight. The Talhoffer would be faster and better at thrusting, but not by much. The Sempach would be the better cutter and the more sturdy one, but not by much.

Is that correct?[/quote]

Yup. As a general rule, the more the weight is towards the cross/hand, the greater tip agility for thrusting, whereas the more the balance is towards the tip, the more it is geared to put power in a cut. You can't go wrong with an Albion in terms of quality, it is really just what sort of sword in the fine details you are looking for. I have only briefly handled a Regent and thus can't give you an impression that would have value.

There are also others out there with far more experience in handling antiques for comparison.

[James Brazas]

I'm still not sure about the Regent's 5.25" balance point.

The Sempach would seem like a great option, but I looked it up and nobody seems to do swordless scabbards for it. So if I wanted a scabbard for a Semphach, I would need to buy the Sempach, mail it in to the scabbard-maker, and then wait for about 6 months to get my sword back. That sounds like a lot of wasted time and money.

So I'm looking more at the Crecy and Talhoffer now. Both DBK and Christian Fletcher do swordless scabbards for those Albions.

The Talhoffer sounds like it would be faster and a better thruster, both of which I like a lot. The Talhoffer is also a pretty blade, which is a nice plus. But what about it's cutting power?

How would the Talhoffer compare in cutting power? I know it would still be lethal in the cut against an unarmored opponent, but would a cut be of any value against leather or maille?

I know that with more cutting-oriented blades, a cut against maille would cause enough trauma to be seriously injuring even if it never breaks a link. Would a cut from the Talhoffer still injure a maille-clad foe or would it be completely worthless?

Would the Talhoffer be able to cut bone? Or would it likely stop partway through the bone - or worse be damaged in the cut.

Someday I'd like to do test cutting, I just don't want to do test cutting that would be likely to damage the blade.

[Stacy Clifford]

I've gotten to test cut with the Talhoffer, Sempach and Crecy. Any two handed sword is capable of leaving a bruise through mail, but the Talhoffer and Sempach just don't have the mass at the tip to really bite deep. They might cut through bone if you hit low on the blade around the middle, though not likely near the tip, but both are good stiff-spined blades and I seriously doubt either would suffer any serious blade damage from hitting bone. Both thrust frighteningly easily. The Crecy cuts beautifully and thrusts almost as well and is one of my favorite blades for all around utility. I've only handled a Regent but not cut with it, but I do know John Clements considers it to be one of Albion's best handling swords. All of them are great and you can't go wrong with any of them, but if your preference is more cutting ability then definitely go with the Crecy or Regent.

[James Brazas]

My preference is for a fast, well-balanced blade that is good at both thrusting and cutting. I'd prefer thrusting over cutting, but not by much. I tend to like a mix of speed and power with an emphasis on speed since that matches my body build fairly well.

So any of those longswords will injure through maille with a cut? That's good. Would it be a serious enough injury for it to be a serious attack or would it be more of a harrassing move before you go for a thrust?

It sounds like cutting with the Sempach or Talhoffer should be done with the middle section of the blade. Is that true?

It's also good to know that none of them would be damaged by cutting bone. I'd hate to spend the money to get a pig carcasse for test-cutting someday only to damage my Albion.

Thank you for your input, Stacy Clifford. In light of my preferences outlined above, do you have a recommendation for my first Albion?

[Jaron Bernstein]

Any of those swords would fine against an unarmored target. Consider that the main way mail and plate armor was defeated was with thrusts from what I know at least.

[Jaron Bernstein]

http://www.tritonworks.com/ makes good scabbards as well, for a reasonable price

[Stacy Clifford]

All of those swords will thrust beautifully and accurately, the Talhoffer and Sempach are just more specialized for easier half-swording and point control (and by point control I don't mean hitting what you aim at, which any sword can do, I mean less mass at the tip = easier to recover your aim when knocked offline). They might be the better choice if you expect to face mainly armored opponents, but not if you expect to need to mow through a crowd of lightly armored skirmishers. The Baron would be the opposite extreme; wonderful at hacking around, but with all that extra mass at the end, slow to recover from a failed or feinted thrust (don't worry, it'll still puncture nicely if it hits something). The Crecy and Regent are both blade types that strike a medium between the two extremes and would perform very well in either situation. Since I like that kind of versatility in a sword, one of those would be my choice. The Crecy is about three inches shorter and half a pound lighter than the Regent and not as pretty, but it also costs only half as much, so it just depends on your budget and what size sword you're comfortable with as to which one would be better for you.

[James Brazas]

Thanks to both of you for your input.

Stacy Clifford:
I too prize that kind of versatility in a blade, so it sounds like the Crecy or Regent would be more my style.

I believe you said that you've had the opportunity to handle both the Crecy and Regent in the past. How does their handling compare? Is one of them faster or more nimble? I like the Regent a lot, but that 5.25" balance point gives me the impression that it would be blade heavy. But I really don't know as I've never had the opportunity to handle a Regent.

I've had the opportunity to handle the Maestro line Leichtenauer, Meyer, and Epee du Guerre before, so those are probably the best comparisons I have. I didn't care for the Epee du Guerre, I liked the Meyer, and I loved the Leichtenauer.

[Stacy Clifford]

I've only handled the Regent at the Albion table at the IG back in 2009, so I didn't get to play with it much. I'd rather let somebody who's handled it more and more recently review it, but as I mentioned, JC likes that model a lot, and he's pretty picky, so there's that to consider. I've test cut with a Crecy several times and although it's a little shorter than I prefer, the handling is agile, it cuts strongly and the point is nasty sharp. All in all I think it's a pretty sweet blade that suits me well and I would certainly recommend it. The Liechtenauer would be a fairly close analogue to either, but its length and weight are almost identical to the Regent. Keep in mind that although the center of gravity on the Crecy is closer to the handle, the whole sword is three inches shorter, so the relative balance between the two is probably not as different as you think considering they are similar blade types. Either way I don't think you're going to be disappointed; I haven't met an Albion that I wanted to put down yet.

[James Brazas]

Interesting.

So the handling of the Crecy and the Regent would be quite similar? And the Regent would handle very similarly to the Liechtenauer? Sounds good!

I just might have to start saving up for the Regent, then. If it's basically a longer and better looking version of the Crecy, I think I'd like it a lot - even if it means I have to save a little longer. John Clement's endorsement is also a plus. I can't guarantee whether his taste and mine would be the same, but he certainly knows what he's talking about.

[Jaron Bernstein]

I found the Regent pommel to be less comfortable than the others you are considering, but that is just a personal preference. They are all of similar quality.

[Stacy Clifford]

I found the Regent pommel to be less comfortable than the others you are considering, but that is just a personal preference. They are all of similar quality.

I've got a fishtail pommel on my Lutel (though not as extreme as the one on the Regent) and it did take some getting used to at first, but I really like it now.