Shane Smith's XIIIa's Damaged Edge

[Shane Smith]

Hi Harlan, welcome to the forum.

Granted a chipped edge trumps a broken tang any day when we speak of the concept of absolute servicability,but that said, there were other weapons tested that demonstrated NEITHER broken tangs NOR signifigantly damaged edges.Many of those were light single handers . I would maintain that if any blade should be able to take an armored strike,it's a heavy war-sword.The XIIIa is a heavy war-sword by my definition and it's hard target performance compared to the other weapons on hand was dissapointing(On unarmoured targets it's VERY impressive however). It is my understanding that overly thin edge geometry was the cause of the failure in this case. I'll be able to let you know for sure soon enough as Gus has modified my XIIIa's edge profile to accurately represent his current line which he assures me is more substantial, and I will be testing in a week or two <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Hi Shane,

Thanks for the welcome.

I don't disagree with the expectation that a sword should perform properly within its designed parameters. A XIIIa should hold up against armour. That being said, what was the style/type of the swords that broke? Were they also designed for an armoured target or were they being tested outside their intended parameters?

[Jamie Fellrath]

I think the point is that ANY sword that is made for actual use SHOULD include armored targets within its intended parameters.

[John_Clements]

No, Harlan. That's incorrect. The underlying issue is really that the sword's edge shattered. The sword was marketed and sold as being hsitorically accurate and correctly made. It was't either. In fact, this blade did not cutter better on the soft targets than did the broken messers and short sword (whose edges however held up) nor did it withstand hitting armor as did the other blades. It cut no better than three other swords which suffered no edge damage and actually peformed worse than an entirley blunt sword at the very same targets. Historically, there weree no Medieval swords I have ever heard of that were designed "only" for cuttting at hard armor or "only" for cutting at soft materials. If you prefer a blade with disposable edges, that's a little odd. I advise swordsmen to find better weapons.

Regards,
JC

[Shane Smith]

I believe one was a light single-hander and the other was a light gross messer I think.

[Shane Smith]

The reground XIIIa was tested today. Myself ,Matt ,Joel and Bob of ARMA VAB tested this weapon and several others against all kinds of targets up to and including an 18 gauge barbute helm.

The XIIIA heavy is no longer quite as effective against soft targets as it was in original thin-edged configuration,yet it performed adequately against really light targets such as pool noodles and pop bottles.When the targets got beefier,the weapons new profile actually began to shine.

We tested this blade and four others of differing makes/models against(uncommonly hard) heavy 5/16" walled 6"+- cardboard tubes. All swords tested performed similarly with about 2/3 to 3/4 through diameter cuts being the norm for all of the Swordsmen with all of the swords tested except for the XIIIA with which I was able to cut through relatively cleanly on a few occasions.I think Matt may have made a complete cut as well.

From there,we cut into a plywood shield blank.The XIIIa did very well here as it nearly doubled the performance of all blades tested except for my Art Elwell custom DT 5143 which equaled it.

I cut into a butted maille hauberk over quilted gambeson-type material supported by a wooden armour stand.The XIIIa did well here showing only the SLIGHTEST nicks in the edge at my hands.The swords tested actually sheared through a few links here and there as well as cutting through the gambeson and biting deeply into the 2x4 timbers.

The final test was against the armoured 18 gauge barbute.The XIIIA put large creases in the helm from the full-power blows I landed and suffered no noticeable damage beyond the tiny nicks noted from the maille cutting and those are so small as not to be worth polishing out. Two DT's and two MRL's equalled this performance in both mine and Matts hands.

Based on the testing today, I am prepared to say that this sword was originally a victim of a too-thin edge as initially speculated.The weapon performed well for all of us with it's new edge configuration and of course,we documented this all via video and stills which we will seek to make available asap to validate the findings and observations. If the new XIIIa's are truly well-represented by mine with it's current beefier-edge configuration,I'd have no qualms betting my life on this model.

[Guest]

Yep, it was a really fun day of cutting. I was very pleased with the performance of the re-ground XIIIA. It cut the carpet tubes (a very tough target) really well and survived our torture testing on armour with no real damage. The edge is noticeably thicker and more chisel-like now, and seems to have just about the right geometry for a variety of targets from pool noodles to steel helms.