Unrimmed shields DO seem to make alot of sense...

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Shane Smith
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Unrimmed shields DO seem to make alot of sense...

Postby Shane Smith » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:02 pm

I know that many of you have read the quip about unrimmed wooden shields being preferred over steel/iron- rimmed shields in John's book and elsewhere,but perhaps you weren't exactly sure why that should be or to what extent it affected swordplay.

We at ARMA VAB did a bit of testing of sharps against an un-rimmed and unpainted shield a couple of weekends ago and the results were pretty convincing.

We set the shield test up as part of another project and allowed room for both lateral and vertical play in the shields support to make for a more accurate measure of how a shield in a mans hand(which has "give" when struck) would interact with the swords being tested. The main purpose of the above test was not to test the unrimmed shield theory per-se'(we were simply testing comparitively the penetration of different swords into the medium),but the lessons learned incidentally warrant a mention of their own I think.

Simply put,we found that an unrimmed laminated ply shield ,well-struck,really hangs onto the offending blade VERY aggressively...WE(sometimes it took more than one of us) literally had to place our feet against the shield and pry and crank on the blades to dislodge them on occasion...and that was with the shield remaining stationary! I couldn't imagine the difficulty involved in retrieving my steel from a shield in the hands of another while his edge is looking to cleave my flesh. I should think a smart fighter with your edge bound would make every effort to torque the shield and keep you in a bind long enough to kill you(a matter of a second perhaps). This is potentially a serious consideration for us as martial artists and none of our current sparring methodologies allow for that possibility(as far as I know).I guess the trick is this;Would a historically-accurately constructed wooden laminated heater-type shield behave the same as one made of modern laminated plywood?Hmmm....

Thoughts?
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MurrayMoore
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Re: Unrimmed shields DO seem to make alot of sense...

Postby MurrayMoore » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:52 pm

My next thought would be how to make a shield that would grab a padded sword? Otherwise, you'd have to go to full plate armor for sparring so one can use a steel sword against the wooden shield.

Realistically, from what you are saying, if one is using a padded sword / shield combo in sparring, then every time you hit the shield with a cut, then you should at least be temporarily out of action until you got it unstuck.
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Shane Smith
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Re: Unrimmed shields DO seem to make alot of sense...

Postby Shane Smith » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:14 pm

Well,I don't know that the sword would be stuck EVERY time,but I think it could become lodged fairly readily if the blow falls true on the shield edge. I still wonder if period heater shields would behave as modern reproductions in this regard to a greater or lesser degree.

As for padded weapons replicating this possibility,perhaps a bit of velcro on the sleeve of the weapon and on the rim of the shield... <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Unrimmed shields DO seem to make alot of sense...

Postby Guest » Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:39 am

Another point to consider is that all the blows that got really stuck in the shield were to the top, flat edge of a "heater" style shield. Perhaps this is why we see the gradual evolution of flat topped shields from the rounded tops of the Norman "Kite" style so prevelant in the 11th and early 12th centuries. Of course I'm just speculating, as many shapes of shields, including round and curved edge designs continued to be used throughought the Middle Ages and Renaissance.

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Re: Unrimmed shields DO seem to make alot of sense...

Postby JeanryChandler » Sat Sep 06, 2003 4:33 pm

Both the Vikings and the Romans prefered to use linden wood or limewood for thier shields. It is a very light, soft wood, but very fibrous, said to be somewhat similar to Basswood in the US. A Viking re-enactment group in Europe did some tests with various types of wood shields, and they found that the Linden wood was infinitely better for stopping arrows than for example oak, because due to it's fibrous and spongy nature it clung to the arrow as it penetrated. I would imagine it would also be excellent at clinging to a bladed weapon, sword axe or spear as well.

I couldn't find the original link but here is one where they discuss the general subject

http://www.regia.org/bow.htm
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