Most distinguished scholars
I must again respectfully disagree.
Fabrice Cognot:
...I don't think that the body movements of what you call a 'hanging guard' and the Krumphau are totally similar (mainly beacuse IMO one of the most important things in the Krumphau is the lateral 'jump'). and I don't think the sword ends in the same position : trying to cut with the true or false edge (depending on the side you're making your Krumphau) implies a different hands, wrists, torso and feet position than Meyer's Hengen
Meyer does not state that one should stay flat footed. Thus, when I perform a Hengen parry I do make an explosive step/jump to one side just as I do when performing a Krumphau. In an idea situation, the step/jump results in the Hengen being a complete voiding of the adversary's blow rather than a parry of the blow. This leaves my sword completely free for a counter cut or thrust.
Hans Heim
This technique from Ringeck is different from the "Verhengen". Here you cut a Krumphau from your right (with the true edge) over his sword and you displace (versetzt) his sword from above towards below. Your sword is above the blade of your enemy. Your true edge stands at the flat of his sword. From here you could snap with the false edge at his head or do something else. But what you do it to cut a Krumphau from above.
With the "Verhengen" like J.Meyer gave us, you displace from below with the flat of your blade the cut of your enemy from above. You are now under the blade of your enemy. His true edge stands at your flat of your blade.
I do agree with your that Ringeck describes an Abwenden (warding off) with the Krumphau, which your blade strikes the flat of the adversary's blade and ends above it.
Ringneck states:
If you want to weaken a master, then while he strikes an Oberhau from his right counter with a Krumphau using crossed hands against his sword (Tobler's translation).
However, Ringeck also discribes an Absetzen (setting aside) with the Krumphau.
Ringneck states:
This is how you can Absetzen -- set aside -- the cuts from above with the Krumphau: If he attacks your opening from his right side with an Oberhau, step towards his left side with your right foot and put your point against his sword into the Schranckhut. Practice this from both sides. From the Absetzeb you can strike him on the head (Tobler's translation).
The purpose of the Krumphau in this technique is to move your blade into the Schranckhut so that your blade is between you and the adversary's blade. Thus, your blade is somewhat under and to the inside of the adversary's blade, resulting in his strike being deflected away from you leaving you free to perform the snap around cut that you like or some other cut/thrust. Now do this same technique against a Zornhau to your shoulder. But instead of taking your sword high and then performing the Krumhau, perform the Krumhau <u>as</u> you take you hilt high - in other words, as Meyers says "
drive your grip above you so that the blade hangs somewhat toward the ground". In both cases the body and blade mechanics as very similar. If they do not represent the same technique then at the very least they demonstrate a possible evolution of Ringeck's technique into Meyer's Hengen technique.
Hans Heim
Like Fab wrote this is another situation. The edge alignment of your sword is different. The quickest cut after the Ringeck technique is the snap with the short edge or a underhau from your left. I personally prefer the snap, because I here control his sword too.
The whole point of my original post was choosing the hand and blade position during these tecnhiques. When I perform a Krumphau low I do use the long edge so that I end in the Schranckhut. However, if you perform a Krumphau with the long edge and your hilt about head high then you are left with you right wrist bent forward, which is a very weak position. Therefore, when I perform a high Krumphau, hilt around the height of my head, I use the short edge so that my wrist is bent back, which is a stronger position.
Hans and Fabrice, my fellow swordsmen and scholars, I too am really looking forward to meeting and training with you all. Most of all I look forward to leaning from you. At the international event we should have plenty of subjects on which to test our theories. <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />
