Gudentag! Interesting weapon

[JeanryChandler]

This unusual weapon was used successfully in some battles by Flemish peasants against foreign Knights in the 13th Century.

http://www.liebaart.org/goeden_e.htm

[David Kite]

Yeah, it is kind of cool. Ultimately it seems to be little more than a spear with a circular guard near the tip (I'm probably stating the obvious when I say the guard would be to prevent the weapon from penetrating the target too deeply, for easier removal, rather than protection for the bearer).

What little I've read of the weapon coincides mostly with the link provided; as another weapon used in mass formations and against cavalry.

I wouldn't want someone coming after me with that thing either <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> "Good Day" indeed!

David Kite
IN

[JeanryChandler]

I think it's more like a giant mace with a spear point. In fact other examples I have seen were shown with a lot of spikes, like a giant morning star. I was wondering if the two weapons here flanking the two-hander John is examining in this old HACA photo, are also something like a Gudentag?

http://www.thehaca.com/essays/europic/europic7b.jpg

The tactics of the gudentag seem to correspond to a lot of what I have read on the shorter (under 8') pole-arms: relatively tentative poking with the point followed by a heavy overhand strike with the payload, in this case a mace-head, as opportunity presents itself.

All in all, this is an interesting weapon worth trying to understand better, as it was used to defeat knights on more than one occasion in the 14th century.


JR

[David Kite]

Ah ha! I hadn't at all pictured them like that! The book I encountered them in only dealt with them more in passing than with any real treatment. It describes them as "a thick, heavy wooden staff four to five feet in length, tipped with a lethal spike." Medieval Warfar: A History , ed. Maurice Keen. And the accompanying period illustration of the army of Ghent (ca. 1346) shows weapons matching the description. I'm not trying to make an argument here, I'm just explaining where my idea had come from. Maybe the discrepancy between our ideas of the weapon stems from the ambiguous descriptions of pole weapons throughout history. <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

Still a very interesting weapon however!

David Kite--ARMA IN

"remember; rape and pillage before you burn"

[Tony_Indurante]

It looks like a big club to me- in this case sheathed with a metal cap, a spiked spear end and -with some instances- spikes around the head. But it's still just a club. The only thing that really interests me about this weapon is that with it's supposed effectiveness as a weapon, why wasn't it a more commonly used battlefield weapon?

[JeanryChandler]

It's use was probably incorporated with special tactics, tactics which may have gone back to the dark ages and previously, as with the Swiss forest cantons with their halberds. Yeah, it's "just a long club" with a spike on the end, but a halberd is "just a long axe" on with a few extra pointy thingies added on.

The gudentag or gudedag was used by Flemish peasant infantry militia in several battles starting in the early 14th century, as with the Halberd it was used in conjunction with the marksmen armed with the new generation of ultra-heavy crossbows. The Flemish infantry had some success against knights when they were able to benefit from advantageous terrain and arrogantly bad tactics by their aristoctratic opponents, but they lacked the battlefield discipline and tactical flexibility of the Swiss, nor were they supported by alliances with wealthy free cities as the Swiss were, and ultimately they were put down.

JR

[Jared L. Cass]

Hi Jeanry and anybody else interested. While browsing some of the hafted weapons over at www.myarmoury.com, I came across this...

www.myarmoury.com/albums/displayimage.php?album=13&amp;pos=30

Sure looks like the discription of the gudentag, doesn't it? <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jared L. Cass, ARMA Associate, Wisconsin

[JeanryChandler]

yes indeed, that is a very interesting piece. More like the spiked ones I had read about in other sources. i can't tell if that is an original or a reproduction, it looks like the shaft is warped or naturally curved. It won't let me expand the image to full size, although I think I'm registered on that site, I'll have to check.

Thanks for finding that image, it's fascinating.

JR

[Guest]

Interesting weapon, I like the version with all the spikes.

By the way, thanks for the link to myarmoury.com, this site is useful.