Missile weapons

[JeanryChandler]

Do y'all use missile weapons in any of your training? I noticed that there are drawings in some of the Fechtbuchs depicting the use of hurlbats (throwing axes) in what appear to be judicial combat. Is there any specific mention of using or defending against missile weapons in the fechbuchs?

If you only had one, throwing a dagger in combat seems like a generally bad idea to me, as I think it's a lot more risky and harder to effectively injure someone. But at very short range (where you only have to tumble the weapon one time, or no times) it might be a viable option

We use Hurlbats sometimes in our sparring and it adds a very interesting dynamic to the fight. Hard to defend against without a shield. Also use javelins sometimes in larger group fights, which we found are surprisingly easy to dodge, parry or even catch unless thrown in volleys.

In an informal duel in the Renaissance one would imagine the possibility would have existed of facing all kinds of missile weapons, up to and including firearms.

Just wondering if anyone else here has had any interesting experiences with missile weapons.

JR

[Casper Bradak]

Offhand I can think of a few from the manuals. Master Talhoffer obviously advocated the study of throwing your dagger, as one plate shows it being used to close the distance to a pole-arm weilders chest, after a sufficient distraction.
The throwing of the pommel (so what's the concensus on that; to be taken seriously, or no?)
Techniques for using the crossbow when assaulted, or assaulting a crossbow.
There's some art from somewhere in the 1400s of hand gun practice (cannon lock) at the target in a fencing school.
The casting of stones (as an exercise, but hey....)
Both german and italian manuals teach the technique of throwing the sword, in the proper circumstances.
There are countless way shown of throwing your opponent <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[JeanryChandler]

The Swiss used groups of rock-throwers in combat on several occasions in the early Renaissance period with notable success. There were also many examples in Classical armies. Figure a baseball can be hurled at 90 mph, a hard fist sized rock could be quite dangerous to an unarmored target.

This is an interesting image from I forget which Fechtbuch (is that meant to be Maximilian I?) with an intriguing type of hurlbat. I think the shields are special dueling shields as well, though I could be wrong. In this Judicial combat the object seems to be to throw a hurlbat first, perhaps with the aim of encumbering or breaking the opponents shield, then to engage with the sword.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/e/deodand23/hurlbat2.jpg

Axes were often used historically to discomfit enemies shields, most famously by the Franks with thier Fransisca. The Roman pilum (javelin) was also considered to be primarily a shield disabler.

JR

[Jay Vail]

The Swiss used groups of rock-throwers in combat

The English also did this at Hastings. It was hard on the horses.

[scott adair]

Were the rocks thrown by hand or using slings in these instances? (by the Swiss and at Hastings)


Scott

[JeanryChandler]

From the best I can determine, thrown by hand. There are reports of this in Greek and Roman times as well.

JR