Long Sword on Middle Earth

[Jaron Bernstein]

Hi all,

I am fairly new to WMA and with ARMA Columbus am just working on the "lonsgword for dummies" stuff, so I wondered what your more informed views might be:

What did you think of the longsword combats (and fights in general) in the 3 recent Lord Of The Rings movies?
<img src="/forum/images/icons/confused.gif" alt="" />

[Scott Anderson]

For my part, if you want to learn longsword, forget anything you've seen in a movie. other than that they have blades there is almost nothing in common.

SPA.

[David_Knight]

For a prime example of what not to do, watch in horror as Aragorn interrupts Eowyn's flourish in the hall of Rohan with an edge-on-edge block (The Two Towers)

D. Knight

[Casper Bradak]

Hey, for what it's worth, even though it's completely different, the real thing looks much cooler than the movies!

[Olgierd Pado]

Couldn't agree more - that's precisely what got me into WMA - the REAL stuff.
However, I must admit that movie combat sometimes looks nice - kind of ballet dance if you know what I mean. You just have to be aware that it's only a show, nothing else...

[Shane Smith]

Yeah, that "flourish" with her left hand pressed along the side of the blade was just one of the most rediculous things I've ever seen presented.If she had to put her hand on the blade she should have at least been at the halfsword! <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> Why can't these well-intentioned folks get a copy of Talhoffer or Fiore before they choreograph their "fight" scenes? I know we at ARMA would be glad to train the actors to a suitable degree just to get historically-accurate methods out there for public consumption.There's just no real excuse for historically-inaccurate technique anymore,even in a fantasy movie.Still a great movie, though we are now digressing off-topic...

[TimSheetz]

Hey Shane,

Their "sword Master" was a stunt double for Erol Flynn and so is obviously qualified to teach techniques on how to kill people with ancient weaponry.

Happy Holidays!
Tim

[Casper Bradak]

Excellent. I'm leaving the ARMA and am funding his trip to utah for the next seminar. We shall see who has the skills when we've been under his tutelage. Beware! hahahahahaha

[Matt Shields]

The Axe and "Dual Longknife" fighting was unarguably horrible. I also had a problem with how the Uruks decided to swing overhead once then wait to get killed. And the unarmed combat in King of the Golden Hall scene reminded me of an eighties action movie. How difficult is it to avoid edge parries anyway?

[Jay Vail]

For a prime example of what not to do, watch in horror as Aragorn interrupts Eowyn's flourish in the hall of Rohan with an edge-on-edge block (The Two Towers)

Interestingly, this exact same technique, a dagger defense against a sword cut to the head (oberhau/fendente) using the dagger edge is taught in shinkage rye kenjutsu. A similar technique is found in Fiore, only with the dagger held in the ice pick. We have practiced the Fiore and shinkage techiques here against full force blows and they work. However, they generally seem to result in use of the dagger edge to make contact. Since you are probably in desperate straights when you have to defend against a sword with a dagger, you probably don't care how you use your edge; you just don't want your skull parted to the teeth.

[Jay Vail]

the real thing looks much cooler than the movies!

So true.

[Casper Bradak]

I suppose if you were to recieve a sword blow with your dagger without stifling it you'd want all the strength of angle you could get.

[Guest]

Questions for all:
Does your knowledge of swordsmanship now make you watch "sword fighting" movies differently? In other words, do you concentrate on the technique of the actors so much that you don't see the battle?

I would think it would to some extent, but I was just curious...

[Patrick Hardin]

I would say that my knowledge of swordsmanship allows me to see a lot more of the little things in movie fights. Someone who doesn't know anything about fighting would see a sword fight in a movie and probably just think, "Wow, that was cool," or something to that effect. But guys like us, who know a bit about what the real thing is like, are able to say "Hey, I saw Aragorn do a flat parry," or "Did he just use a grappling move on that orc?" or "Man, why would he just block her sword with his knife edge-to-edge like that?" or "Neat, she is standing in a perfect ochs guard, even though she's using two hands on a one-handed sword." We can see the very few good things in movies and also the very many bad things. I think our knowledge simply enables us to perceive the details better, whether they are good or bad... though most of the time, they are bad. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Personally, I try to look past the mistakes in the fighting and just enjoy the movie. But I think that my ability to see detail enhances my enjoyment, even if I spot a lot of ludicrous combat.

Patrick Hardin

[Jake_Norwood]

I find it that the movies that drew us to swords as children now make us shudder with "ewwww" as men. We still love them, but it can be hard to watch. The worst was "A Knights Tale," I think. The best have been old black-and-white Kurosawa films...Yojimbo, Rashomon, the 7 Samurai...even the new Tom Cruise movie was good when they were sparring and training with boken, but then the nassssty edge parries and spinning set in when the Ninja Attacked...

Is this on topic?

Jake