History Channel documentary

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JeanryChandler
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History Channel documentary

Postby JeanryChandler » Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:38 pm

History Channel international is showing a documentary right now on the Sword which included interviews with Sydney Anglo, discussion of the fechtbuchs, and demonstrations of half-swording by royal armories re-enactors. They even made the point (no pun intended) that the medieval sword was not the clumsy device of popular misconception, but a versatile and deadly weapon at least as lethal as the Japanese sword. The half-swording demonstrations looked pretty good though it was of course just some coreorgraphed walk throughs. Anybody heard of this?

JR
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Mike Cartier
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Re: History Channel documentary

Postby Mike Cartier » Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:12 am

saw that last night too, was pretty good. Missed first 1/3 tho dammnit
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Patrick Hardin
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Re: History Channel documentary

Postby Patrick Hardin » Sat Jan 17, 2004 12:44 am

Yes, that's Arms in Action: The Sword. I've seen it before. I liked it pretty well, but I thought it still retained a little of that old "the Japanese sword is so awesome, it's magic" attitude, or at least it seemed that way to me from their segment on the Japanese sword. I don't think they were very accurate about the Viking sword either. But I did like the medieval and renaissance segments.

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Re: History Channel documentary

Postby JeanryChandler » Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:08 pm

Yeah I can see what you mean about the Kataana section, though I thought it was interesting that they claimed that Nihonto was so offense- heavy.

What did you feel was unrealistic about the Viking swords? I'm very interested in "Viking" swords, particularly the older pattern welded types, and have read extensively about them, unfortunately I find a great deal of the available information and opinion from modern swordsmiths to be largely contradictory.

I'd be interested to learn anything new.

JR
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Patrick Hardin
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Re: History Channel documentary

Postby Patrick Hardin » Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:05 am

Well, I didn't really have any problems with the segment on smithing the blades. It was when they got to the part about how the Viking sword was used that I think it gets a bit ignorant. I just don't agree with the guy who was saying, if I can remember correctly:

"It didn't even have to have a sharp blade, although that helped. But the main impact of the sword was when you slashed at someone and bashed through his skull, or his arm or his leg. It was for a hard hit."

I've watched this program several times, and I have a good memory for screen dialogue, so I think that is word-for-word what he said. I think what that guy said depicts a Viking sword almost more as a percussive weapon than as a cutting weapon. You see passages in the sagas all the time about how a sword "bit" into an opponent's body, not how it broke some part of him. And my own cutting experience with blades of this type tells me that they don't bash, they cut very cleanly, as a matter of fact. So for this guy to say the Viking sword was a weapon used for hard hitting doesn't make sense to me. We all know that speed is the important thing when you're cutting, not really how hard you strike the target. So I just don't think that the Viking segment of that program portrayed an accurate picture of what a Viking sword could do.

Patrick Hardin
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Shane Smith
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Re: History Channel documentary

Postby Shane Smith » Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:11 am

Does anyone know when this is coming on again? You guys are making me sorry I missed it! <img src="/forum/images/icons/frown.gif" alt="" />
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Re: History Channel documentary

Postby JeanryChandler » Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:46 pm

"It didn't even have to have a sharp blade, although that helped. But the main impact of the sword was when you slashed at someone and bashed through his skull, or his arm or his leg. It was for a hard hit."


Yeah, I remember that part and I found it questionable as well. In my own mind I could remember people talking about doing test cutting (including I think here on the ARMA site) where they said that even the dull bladed weapons cut quite surprisingly well. I guess I assumed that is what the guy meant.

On the other hand the best sources I can find seems to indicate that the Viking weapons and metalurgy in general, was like their shipbuilding and some other technologies, if any thing superior to most of their contemporaries.

The pattern welded swords in particular were supposed to be extremely sharp. If the hyperbolic descriptions in the sagas can be believed at even one tenth, I think one has to assume that at the very least, the Norse smiths were making them as sharp as they possibly could without making the blades too brittle.

There is one anecdote which Kevin Cashen mentioned once, which I think is from one of the sagas, about placing a newly crafted sword in a stream and floating a hair down to it: if it cut the hair then it was a "good sword".

Some modern smiths say that the pattern welded weapons while being more flexible were not as hard and therefore sharp as homogeneous high carbon steel swords, but others like Cashen (who seems to be very well regarded in the swordsmithing community) claim that with increasingly perfected tempering techniques and the introduction of some trace elements (such as vanadium and phosphorous) which were believed to exist in VIking swords, they have been able to make swords harder and sharper than the best weapons made from modern steel with a higher carbon content.

There was also an interesting article in Popular Science magazine about how tiny amounts of Vanadium found in Indian Wootz ("damascus") steel helped to harden it by fitting into the troughs of tiny cementite 'waves' or ripples which were formed in the steel during the tempering process.

It's all a little over my head, I can't even make a clay pot in a kiln!

JR

JR
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Re: History Channel documentary

Postby Guest » Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:50 pm

It seems that the history channel focuses on 20th century warfare and medieval/rennaissance/pre-firearm era/etc documentaries alternately, with a bit more of a focus on the former. I don't watch enough to know when the latter is on... kind of makes me wish that there were a channel devoted to it.


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