fun like a waster in the eye!

[Ryan Ricks]

so we determined tonight that while longswording, it'd be real easy to get a waster right in the eye.

so what does everyone use for eye/face protection? do sport fencing masks work? are they strong enough?

jason put on his motorcycle helment, and i have my norman helm. maybe some saftey goggles would go nicely under the nasal?

we're not doing full contact, just enough contact to bruise a little.

ryan

[Jay Vail]

many people use fencing masks. some advocate lacrosse helmets.

[TimSheetz]

For full speed padded weapon sparring I favor a hockey helmet with face cage.

As you go into waster sparring, a soldi fencing mask should do you (as long as you always keep your face towards your opponent and do not expose the back of your head! )

[GaryGrzybek]

I go with Tim here, a hockey helmet for padded sparring is fine. The fencing mask works too as long as you don't get hit on top or the back of the head. This is especially true with wasters, and be extra careful when half swording.

[Shane Smith]

I use the fencing mask for waster work where a thrust to the face is a danger as a rule(My head is harder than my eyes).For blunt steel,I use the hockey helmet for the reasons mentioned above but I am thinking of trying out the fencing mask in combination with a my arming cap for protection for the back of the head.For armoured steel halfswording,I wear an open bascinet with aventail and safety glasses. I use either the fencing mask or the hockey helmet for protection when using the padded weapons and have no strong preference either way.

[Ryan Ricks]

have you ever sparred with the visor on that bascinet?

i think i'll try out the saftey goggles and see how that works. i'll need some nice ones though, the ones i have now kind of distort your vision.

ryan

[Shane Smith]

Hi Ryan,

We did start out our armoured work wearing visors for maximum safety,but as time went on and our understanding of the technical applications increased,it became obvious that several (and in some cases,nearly all) armoured plates from certain source-texts show no,or abbreviated, visors for a good reason. With my pig-face visor on,visibility is very poor and as such,all of the subtle,timing dependant techniques become much more difficult. At speed in intense freeplay,the difference is even more obvious. To go one further,one day I was watching an intense freeplay bout between Matt Anderson and Joel Thompson and I was shocked at just how very often the blade barely missed the eye-slot,even in leveraging. After that, I decided that visibilty and an actual barrier between the eye and the opposing blade was paramount so I went to no visor with safety glasses for modest armoured work. For intense half-sword freeplay,we have had to make unfortunate and restrictive accomodations in the interest of safety ,ie. no thrusts to the face and wearing the visor. I think the way we train now is about as safe as you can make hanessfechten without sacrificing martial effectiveness and even then,anyone that's seen us train knows we're still pretty heavy-handed on the throws and the like(It aint knitting class after-all). <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

[CoreyGray]

Hmmmm... I have to wonder about helms accompanying full plate. That is combat armor and knights needed to be able to see to be able to fight.

[Brian Hunt]

Hi all,

When I feel I the need for head gear, for padded weapon sparring or waster/steel blunt freeplay, I will use either a fencing mask, or my prefered choice is my hand made mask. For those of you who don't know, I am the guy who built the mask that Jake Norwood has. Mine is similar to his. For harness armour, I am experimenting with putting a mesh into the eye slots of a period helmet, so you get the look but the eyes are protected.

Brian Hunt.

GFS

[Shane Smith]

Hi Cory,

Exhibit A



EXhibit B


Many theorize that after the initial approach and rush to battle,the visors were sometimes lifted, as once the arrows and other missile weapons stopped flying,visibility was a valuable asset. It is also just as likely that the images from the fechtbuchs in question depict judicial combat and as such,the facing of one opponent instead of a battlefield full of foe's may have made the lack of a visor acceptable. The fechtbucher depict combat with visors and without so it largely depends on the text you're working with and the individuals personal preference and percieved needs. I work with Fiore's armoured longsword primarily,hence my own decision to largely forgo visors(Visors do play a big role in Fiore's polaxe work however). <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Ryan Ricks]

very interesting. how does visibility in a bascinet or close type helment compare to visibility in a great helm? seems like it would be similar, but never having worn one i don't know.

i guess with no visor to lift, you're pretty much stuck with poor vision? if that's the case i prolly won't bother upgrading from my norman helm

[Casper Bradak]

It's the same. It's all in properly fitting it. I think I remember a technique shown by Master Vadi, probably Fiore too, where you pop open the other guys visor with one hand while stabbing your poll axe through it with the other.
The cool thing about most visored helms over great helms is that you can remove or mix and match visors, increasing their versatility.

[Ryan Ricks]

so far, everyone i've seen in armor around ARMA always has the churburg type. what's up with that? is it just everyone likes that time period and style of armor? is it cheaper to buy? lighter to wear? it seems like a full chain maille hauberk and a breast plate would be pretty darn heavy. my hauberk weights about 20 lbs. add an extra, what 10 lbs for the breast plate? dunno.

[Shane Smith]

I think there is nothing more intimidating than a foe in shining maille and a bascinet with pigface visor. Beyond that,there are several other advantages to this setup.For one,the hauberk you wear under the breastplate can also be worn alone allowing you to simulate training in that earlier manner of combat.Likewise the gambeson. The ability to gather bits and pieces from different sources as you can afford them and have them more or less fit is also greater if you don't have plate from head to toe.

In conclusion though,I must admit that the 14th century and it's arms and armour appeal to me very powerfully and as such,it draws me. The gear of those times strike me as being "manly" in the extreme.Just as I don't find myself drawn to rapier,I don't find myself drawn to late-plate harness. There is just something about maille and plate together that both fascinates and stirs the spirit.

Fortunately,the techniques of armoured combat are fairly constant regardless of what type of armour you are wearing.The armpits and face are always a target to a greater or lesser degree and the need to close to grips and grapple is likewise a constant if a long-range thrust fails.

My harness weighs about 80 pounds or so but that is not unduly cumbersome as I can still move fairly well in it.Even running is no problem.

[Shane Smith]

Brian said"For harness armour, I am experimenting with putting a mesh into the eye slots of a period helmet, so you get the look but the eyes are protected."

That sounds interesting. Can you keep us posted on that? Thanks <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />