gambeson 1.0 questions

[ChrisThies]

I will soon have an experienced seamstress (Mom) visiting me, and she has agreed to help me make a gambeson. My intent is to use linen (made from flax) as the fabric, and tow (a byproduct of linen manufacture) as the padding, since these two materials appear to be those most commonly used historically. I also read somewhere that linen was 2 to 3 times stronger than cotton, but I assume that depends upon the weave & weight, etc. Cotton and hemp were also used in western europe.

So I am currently sourcing materials for this project. I've purchased a pattern (Medieval Miscellanea c.1989). And I've found a source for linen fabric [www.Fabric-store.com]. But I cannot find a source for natural tow fiber! I found a single retailer which lists both tow and hemp fiber (at $17 or $18 per pound), but was later told by the owner that their supplier stopped offering tow a couple years ago, and she had no idea when they'd have it back in stock. And I have no idea how much I would need to fill a large size gambeson 3/4" to an inch thick. I couldn't find any other domestic suppliers or manufactures of tow online, only those of synthetic 'tow's derived from manmade textiles. Just out of curiosity I also sought foreign sources of tow [www.Alibaba.com]. There I found plenty of suppliers of similar fibers such as jute (burlap), hemp, ramie, and sisal. But still no tow!

Should I just give up the tow search and use some form of cotton batting for filler? Or would a guy who sweats alot when exercising find the cotton filler too absorbent? Are there any quilting tricks I should be aware of that would help mitigate the settling of whatever filling I choose? Any suggested filler thicknesses per filler fiber? Does anyone know which weight of linen I should use for the fabric (they seem to range from 3.5 ounces per yard to 7.9)? Or perhaps are there any other suggestions anyone may have for me before I begin this project?

Thanks for your time.
Chris

[Matthew_Anderson]

100% cotton batting will work well, it asborbs moisture, but wicks it away from your body, helping to cool you. Make sure to put little or no padding under the arms and at the inside of the elbow so you can move properly. In fact, cotton batting is arguably historically correct. Cotton was used in the middle ages a batting or padding but not usually for fabric as it was so labor intensive to remove the seeds from the fibers. Another term for a padded garment was aketon, which derives from the arabic word for cotton, I believe.

[Ryan Ricks]

3/4" ?? wow that's really thick. i had mine custom made from pre-quilted fabric that one can purchase at any fabric store. it's pretty thin, so it wouldn't offer much protection from a blow, but it's very nice and comfy under the chain maille. i just can't imagine how hot it would be wearing something 3/4" thick while trying to fight.

ryan

[TimSheetz]

The problem with most prefilled quilted material I have seen is that it is synthetic quilting.. "high loft" made to be very insulating - warm but not dense enough to stop a blow. Everything I have seen like that in the past 4 years has been that way.

My best gambeson has an old natural fiber moving blanket as the padding. My think one has synthetic fiber... a language problem with my tailor caused that. Very displeased with some of his modifications so ended up getting free work on them.

Tim

[Karen Rose]

Chris,
I'll be meeting with some folks who have really good quality commercially made gambesons this weekend. Hopefully I can get some information from tags, or even paperwork that may have come with the gambesons when they were purchased. I tried one on and took a good waster wack and hardly felt a thing. It was thick...and hot, and limited movement a bit when not used to it, but OMG what protection.
If I can come up with anything useful I'll pass it along. I think the guy who owns the one I tried paid about $260 for it.
<img src="/forum/images/icons/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Yikers.
Karen

[scott adair]

Karen,

How thick was the gambeson you tried out?


Scott Adair

[ChrisThies]

To tow or not to tow. I wanted to use tow as a filler not only because I think that it was most common in western europe, but I also thought that it would be interesting to put to the test a fabric/filler combination that is not readily available commercially. So I gave my quest for tow a second effort, discovered a second retailer, only to find it again out of stock.
For future reference, the two retailers I found that listed tow were:
http://www.hillcreekfiberstudio.com
and
http://www.earthsongfibers.com
And if someone would really, really, really like some light reading <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> about the modern tow market, and the flux of flax during linen fashion periods, see pages 8 &amp; 9 of this report entitled, "Study on Markets and Prices for Natural Fibers (Germany and EU) nova Institute March 2000" at:
http://www.newuses.org/pdf/nova-study-full.pdf

I will be using cotton batting as filler in my gambeson 1.0, and perhaps in the future will try to experiment with other period fillers and fabrics (gambesons 1.1, etc.). I hope to have enough materials left over to also make an arming cap and a test patch (for test cutting). I think that using the cotton batting for filler will prove to be an easier quilt account I expected to have to do some type of a more complicated quilting with the loose tow fibers in order to mitigate their settling. I will post the details of the materials I use (i.e. type of fabric, filler, and thickness) and perhaps a photo when the project is complete.

Although I am moving forward with the materials acquisition so that I am prepared when my 'expert' sewer arrives, I am still open to any more suggestions anyone may have. There are many options that I need to decide upon. Currently on my mind is which type of mating between the sleeve and shoulder would be best. Securing the sleeve to the top of the shoulder, and leaving the armpit open for a greater freedom of movement and ventilation was my first thought, the trade off of course is no protection under armpits. But I am also thinking of using a larger piece of fabric for the sleeve - I believe the term is a 'radial sleeve' or a 'raglin sleeve' - wherein the sleeve cut of fabric continues up over the top of the shoulder to end at the seam of the neck, and also hangs down some to both the front and back of the shoulder. I had an old coat like this (a late 80's army gortex jacket actually). I think such a cut provides for slightly better arm movement when compared to the standard 'sleeve piece meets torso piece at a vertical seem sewn all around joint'. But I believe the trade off is you get bulges of fabric to the front and rear of the armpit.

And I am leaning towards a larger collar (historically I believe they ranged from no collar up to large), but I am one of those guys who gets a 5 o'clock shadow early in the day. Does anyone have any ideas how I could mitigate fraying a larger linen collar (beside growing a beard)?

Thanks again.
Chris

[Karen Rose]

The thickness of the gambeson I tried on was at least 3/4". It was very thick and very stiff.