Training with heavy materials for strength?

[Ryan Ricks]

i agree. when i want to wear myself out thoroughly, i bust out the sharps to do solo drills with. this is especially true for one hand swords. my arms are still sore from doing some drills on saturday.

ryan

[leam hall]

"If you want to cut harder and faster, you cut."

Yes, but only sorta. Lemme see if I can work through an example.

In my first workout with Gary G we did some Ochs. More Ochs than I had been doing on my own, and my pectorals let me know they were past their limit. But it was only a portion of the muscle mass that was complaining, which indicates only that part would get enough of a workout if I did a lot of Ochs. If I do some resistance training that builds the entire muscle mass then the overall fitness level improves.

Another issue is large versus small muscle groups. For me, doing a bunch of unterhau builds the forearm and wrist muscles. However, they tire out well before the biceps and triceps. If I relied solely on sword work for muscle development I'd not get any real upper arm growth.

By doing the sword first I develop skill while the muslces (and both brain cells) are most able to function properly. This lets me hit the small muscle groups and get warmed up. *Then* the weights come in for the large muscle groups that are still unstressed. I agree with Tim; doing sword work with a partner *after* weights is more of a risk.

Since the sword and weight work are paced I finish up with a bit on the treadmill to get a pure cardio raise. Again, this helps overall, not in specifics.

Tim's point that you improve blade work using a blade is true. But I believe you need the extra workout to build the secondary structures

[GaryGrzybek]

No problem Tim, those drills were childs play <img src="/forum/images/icons/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

I remember hurting for days <img src="/forum/images/icons/frown.gif" alt="" />

I agree that to develope proper muscles for swordplay you must ....well, use your sword. Certainly some good cardio training and weight training to supplement is not a bad idea either.

For those folks who are new it is better not to perform partner drills when exhaustion has set in. Control will suffer as Tim said.

G

[TimSheetz]

Hi Leam,

At this time, you say your wrist and forearms get tired from doing unterhau and the rest of your arms isn't getting stressed. Certainly once you build up the muscles that are out of shape you will be able to continue the actions until more of your arm gets exhausted.

Also, Unterhau isn't going to get a lot of you upper arms I would think. It will work your shoulders and back and your legs if yo are doing them right. You may not feel the benefits now, but after you build up your wrist and forearms I think you'll be able to hit the other stronger groups.

I know there are plenty of fitness trainer types in ARMA to add to this.

Peace,

Tim

[leam hall]

Well, after doing some training and free play with Tim I'm glad I did those workouts. Wish the next upcoming move hadn't messed up my training schedule the weeks prior to him being here, though. <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I *am* glad I worked out in the months prior. I was able to keep my body moving much better and for longer than I would have otherwise. I still fell short of where I could have been, but that's an encouragement to work out more. Especially cardio. I think the lesson from this thread is that you need to evaluate where you're challenge areas are and work on those more, but don't ignore the quest for body tone, endurance, flow, technique, and scholarship.

[Matt Bailey]

I'd skip the iron bars, or at least be slow or careful with them.
What seems to help me is to attack something to the waster to aid *air resistance*. When you get an iron bar going in a cut, it's basically going to keep going by it's own momentum. If you do something to add air resistance to a waster though, you have to use more of the right muscles to get it going.
You can tie or wrap a towel to a waster. I have a sort of "scabbard" made of foam and duct-tape that can be slipped over a waster, looks like an attempt to pad the thing but the purpose is to add air resistance.

[David Kite]

Considering that most reproduction swords available feel as though they are much "heavier" than period weapons (not counting the high end swords), and since even most wasters and padded weapons are cumbersome compared to the originals, couldn't it be said that we already do practice with heavier and/or "double-weight" weapons?

Just a thought
David Kite
ARMA in IN

[JeffGentry]

David
After the 1.0 i broke my 1x2 waster i made so i made a more sword looking one out of another piece of oak and it was heavy as crap(it is still around though and in use), compared to hickory, i think using that has helped make me stronger and faster, now i make a hickory waster and do the counter weight and all so they are fairly light and decently ballaced.

I do agree that in alot of way's we are training with heavy object's using any wood sword.

Jeff

[leam hall]

Yup, the iron bars are for *very* slow work. They show you what muscles get used and where your stance is lacking. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Casper Bradak]

Hehe that's a very good point!

[Aaron Pynenberg]

I tell ya, something else I like doing from time to time is to use wrist weights, I bought these five pounders from Sheild's Sports that are like open palmed gloves. they do not slide around or interfere with your grip at all- and they really pound you without messing with the ballance of your trainer.

I have also almost gone exclusivly to training with my Heimrick blunt, it is heavy as s__t and really works me out. I pick up a wooden waster now and it feels like a toy.

I would also add that you should try a weight lifting routine for the shoulders once in awhile, keeping those shoulders strong, all around will avoid shoulder injuries/and weakness
Aaron

[TimSheetz]

For a good shoulder work out I like the "Over head clap".

Start position arms are parallel to the ground and straight out to your sides. Then, keeping your arms straight raise them above your head and clap then back down again.

do 200 of those. You'll love it....

Then do the front claps. Start position same as above. Then, keeping your arms straight and parallel withthe ground, clap to your from. Do 200 of those.

You won';t be able to eat without help after that. If you do the exercise with "4counts" then half the repetitions I mentioned. Simple arm weight will give you the resistance you need.

Tim

[Erich Wagner]

Yeah, Time has a lot of really cruel things he can show you that make your day go by in a cloud of pain. He showed us quite a few at the International event including this deceptively evil hand clap exercise.

[JeffGentry]

hey Erich
Most Military guy's know some simple looking exercise's that will just cause you nothing except pain and discontent.

Jeff

[Brian Hunt]

Hey Tim,

did anyone ever tell you that your an evil man. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

My shoulders hurt just reading your post.

Brian Hunt.
GFS