Sword & Buckler vs Long Sword

[James Derrick]

Apologies if I am missing something obvious, but I haven't found anything yet in a fight manual covering this.

What is the best way to close when fighting with sword and buckler against a longer weapon? I find that it is difficult to avoid being hit in the legs when doing so.

The things I have tried are:
Feinting - only works occasionally, and if I misjudge the range I get hit anyway - especially with a 1 handed blow.
Lifting the front leg - works about 70-80% of the time
Passing forward - the forward movement may get them to swing before I am in range, but if I am not careful about the range I get hit in the front leg anyway.
Parrying - doesn't work well, because a powerful blow just knocks the weak part of the sword out of the way.
Stepping back - avoids getting hit - but I don't get any closer either!
Waiting for an attack - defeated by my natural impatience

Any ideas?

Thanks

[Guest]

Hi James.

I don't have very much experience with sword and buckler, and what little experience I have is purely buckler vs. buckler, but I'll try to answer as well as I can.

"What is the best way to close when fighting with sword and buckler against a longer weapon? I find that it is difficult to avoid being hit in the legs when doing so."

- Try to keep some more distance, staying out of his range at first, and then quickly close in. Has worked fairly well for me when using the sword against longer weapons.

Silver said:
"I say make your space narrow until you can cross his sword blade strongly & suddenly, so shall you put by his point out of the right line, & instantly strike or thrust, & slip back according to your governors.

But take heed unless you can surely & safely cross go not in, but although you can so cross, & thereupon you enter in, stay no by it but fly out according to your governors.

Stay not within distance of the long sword or rapier with your short sword, nor suffer him to win the place of you, but either cross his sword, or make your space very narrow to cross it before his blow or thrust be in force, yet keeping your distance whereby he shall strike or thrust at nothing, & so shall be subject to the time of your hand against the time of his feet."

You might want to read the sword & dagger/buckler against the longsword/rapier part of his Brief Instructions.

"Lifting the front leg - works about 70-80% of the time"

- Have you tried taking a step backwards with the leading foot and countercutting to the hands at the same time? His longer reach might make this a bit problematic, I'm not sure.

"Parrying - doesn't work well, because a powerful blow just knocks the weak part of the sword out of the way."

- Close in and parry with the buckler or the strong of your sword before the strike is completed.

"Stepping back - avoids getting hit - but I don't get any closer either!"

- Yes, but the countercut might just work, especially if you keep your back leg in its place and lean forward a bit.

"Waiting for an attack - defeated by my natural impatience "

- I don't know how well this would work, but try to step in, drawing an attack and stopping it with your buckler before it is completed. This should give you an opportinity to counterattack while his sword is bound by your buckler, assuming you're close enough.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to test these right now, so I might be spewing utter rubbish... Hopefully at least some it works.

Best wishes,
Rabbe

[David Kite]

I finally had the opportunity to use S&B vs Longsword this weekend. In my brief experienc, I found that attacks to the legs should only be voided, where you then either counter-time, or wait for another opportunity to move in. For me, as long as the longsword was above waist level the weapon was easy to stifle (especially over-hand blows) with the buckler and strike with the sword.

If you really find yourself needing to parry a leg blow, don't do it with the buckler (IMO). You'll just have to parry with the sword, and move in quickly to strike with the buckler until you have the chance to make the kill with the sword. (Use care against your practice partners; bucklers still hurt.)

I've only really had one day with the sword and buckler, so take my inexperienced advice with a grain of salt.

David Kite
ARMA in IN

[Matthew_Anderson]

We have played around with sword and buckler against longsword quite a bit here in VB. Generally, I find that if I adopt a left leg leading stance and stay there, I'll get hit in the forward leg by the longsword quite often. You can pass the left leg back and counter cut as others have suggested, but this is often more difficult than it sounds at full speed. I find that a right leg leading stance such as Pflug (or half-shield as in I.33) or Alber (Langenort in I.33) or Nebenhut (sword held under the left extended arm) make it nearly impossible for the longsword player to simply reach out and slice my forward leg. By leading with the right foot, your right shoulder and arm are also forward giving you more striking range and you can easily cut his arm or head if he goes low to your leg. You can also close from these right leg leading stances by passing the left leg forward as you stiffle his weapon with the buckler, cutting him in the legs or thrusting behind the buckler, etc. Anyway, try it out and see how it works for you.

[Stacy Clifford]

You beat me to it, Stew. I was just going to suggest schrankhut with the sword and buckler for defending the legs. On the left side at least (defending against a right-to-left cut) it's a good strong position that can be raised up to hengen or dropped back to tail as needed, defends either forward leg well, and gives you some decent options for follow-up counters. It doesn't really work well on the right side, though, so that leaves you with boar's tooth/alber to defend your legs (which works on both sides), in addition to the other solutions mentioned above. If you hold the buckler near the tip of the sword instead of the hilt (around shoulder height, not down low), you also effectively achieve a half-sword defense.

[Lance Chan]

Ok guys, you are all going to make my fight with James more difficult, aren't you? ;D

[Mark Horobin]

Just curious, if you are planning on using a sword and buckler, would it not be a good idea to have a small dagger or knife as well?

If the buckler is strapped to your arm it provides some protection, having a blade would provide an edge to strike with and to assist in parrying attacks with a little more reach.

[Lance Chan]

The buckler used by James and depicted in historical manuals seem to be carried by the hand instead of strapped to forearm like a targe. So carrying a dagger with the left hand maybe out of option (phew, good for me. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm the long sword guy James mentioned)

[Shane Smith]

Hi Mark.Welcome to the forum <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lance has it right.The buckler has a center-grip and is held in the left hand firmly(for a right hander) as opposed to being borne by enarme straps as other shields often are.

[Mark Horobin]

So more of a punch grip, I must have been getting carried away with Braveheart again. Danke for clue and the welcome.

[Mark Horobin]

I have seen and used round shields effectively to pin an opponent and prevent them from moving their sword or arms because they are pressed against their chest and are being bowled backwards, however doing the same with a buckler would be more difficult.

I have occasionally been succesful in parrying a low attack with a shortsword, crossing myself so the (arm strapped) buckler (small shield) struck the upper arm/elbow of my opponent and allowed me to drive their arm up and away from their body enough for a cut up and through just below the rib cage as I passed them, but this was heavily reliant on my speed and the attacker committing to a low to mid level attack as I moved forward.

Baiting your opponent into attacking where you want them to helps <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[TimSheetz]

Very True Stew,

I have been accidentally 'tagged' by the rim of a padded buckler... just at the spot where there was a chink in the padding.

It almost made me take my ball and go home. ;-0

I'd say the rim if you want to damage and cause more pain, and the face of the buckler if you'd like to push or confuse the opponent (figuring you are shoving the boss into his nose).

Tim

[Shane Smith]

I don't know Tim...I've actually knocked a skilled opponent to the ground in blunt steel S&amp;B freeplay with a straight strike(not really a shove) to his fencing mask with my umbo immediately after I was relieved of my sword...The tactic was apparently quite unexpected as I followed him to the ground and took control before he could react/recover.