New Article on Armored Longsword

[david welch]

All i can say is Wow!
... and thank you.

[Craig Peters]

Not to hijack this thread, but how are the books coming John?

[Matthew_Anderson]

Hi Ryan,

Well, there are techniques in Flos Duellatorum that I haven't really seen elsewhere and there are some that are very similar to techniques in Talhoffer, Ringeck and other German sources such as Gladiatoria (which has, by far, the most armoured fighting material of any manuscript I've seen yet). Fiore also excludes a few techniques that seem really prevalent in the German sources such as the murder stroke for example. Did he exclude them because he found them ineffective? too risky? We'll probably never know. I'd be willing to bet he knew them and knew how to counter them even though he doesn't show them in his book. Certain basic themes run through all the armoured fighting texts IMO. Things such as foot placement for throws over the leg, levering with the sword to wrench the wrist, elbow, and shoulders, and of course, putting your opponent on the ground, preferably stunned or disabled from a hard throw. Many of Fiore's techniques are intended to do this and this is a common concept in many German sources as well. What I like about Fiore's book is that all the techniques are really very simple. You can literally learn the movements in about five minutes each, then it's just a matter of practicing them about ten thousand times till you can do it at the right time and quickly without thinking about it :^)

[Stuart McDermid]

Umm Wow guys, well done indeed. That's real quality work there.

You could have showed off a little more and showed us a little more by showing some sequential technique pictures though.....
Cheers,
Stu.

[Matthew_Anderson]

Thanks Stu. Yes, we discussed doing sequential photographs, almost like frames of video or film, but we kind of ran out of time as I was about to leave on a Military deployment. One thing I learned from this project is just how difficult it is to really explain martial arts techniques in words, even with pictures to help. I could show someone how I do any of these techniques in just a few minutes, they could feel the leverage, pressure, weight distribution, etc. and probably catch on quickly. In writng, however, things are easily misunderstood or seem incomplete to the reader. I just hope folks find this little taste of what we've been playing around with interesting and Shane and I are certainly open to any feedback or questions.

[Brian Hunt]

Hey guys,

really nice article. Makes me want to finish my rebuild on my armour and get practicing my haness fighting.

Good work

Brian Hunt

GFS

[Casper Bradak]

Have you studied from Hans Czynner’s Fechtbuch at all? If I could pick just one book I'd like translated, that would be it. I think it's very intriguing.

[Matthew_Anderson]

Casper,

I have browsed through Cyzner a bit but haven't worked with it in detail at all. Looks like lots of good wrestling and dagger. A translation would indeed be welcome.

[Shane Smith]

There is also one more reason why there are fewer images than some would like.We wanted people to actually reason through the techniques with their own faculties as opposed to falling into an "Okay,here's step A,and now step B, now C" kind of mindset. As we point out in the article,there are so many possible ways to arrive at each of Fiores solutions that we wanted the reader to really get engaged in the concepts behind the explainations and images in order to spark their own thinking.In this way,we reasoned that our fellow enthusiasts could arrive at a deeper understanding of exactly what is being attempted in the big picture.

This is also largely why we did not attempt to exactly replicate the poses in the manual for the purposes of the article. We simply performed the techniques and the camera caught the moment in time as it was. This slight contrast also helps newer armoured longsword enthusiasts understand that in martial arts, it is more important to get the job done within the apparent boundaries of the system than it is to strive for every nuance seen in an image from the work in question at all times. For instance,in the wrist grab and thrust to the face,based on the situation, sometimes the Swordsman who is thrusting will end up with his foot outside the opponents,while at other times such as when performing this same technique from Fiores Masters parry,he will end with the foot inside as the image shows. It's all very situational and I am wary of forcing a too-rigid mindset on my fellow martial artists...

[Joachim Nilsson]

It's all very situational and I am wary of forcing a too-rigid mindset on my fellow martial artists...

That's a very good approach. I like that. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[GaryGrzybek]

Nice work guys <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Matthew_Anderson]

Very good points Shane. Even though most of the photos, which were, as you say, taken as we actually performed the techniques, look quite a bit like Fiore's, they are rarely exactly the same. I think the key elements are the same, but slight variations in foot placement, hand positition, posture, etc. are bound to occur.

[John_Clements]

I have to say that when I first witnessed Matt &amp; Shane perform their techniques at the 2003 gathering, I was completely blown away. It was without question the finest example of armored martial techniques I've ever seen. They really know their stuff and astoundingly, will only get better in the future I know.

JC

[David Kite]

Well, I don't have anything to add to what's been said except:
It's about time! <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

Also, you mentioned the Novati translation of Fiore, so I thought it might it be a good idea to add a link to that translation, or at least a link to the Fiore we have here in the manual section?

David Kite
ARMA in IN

[Shane Smith]

Here's the link David http://www.varmouries.com/wildrose/fiore/section6.html