schielhau v. pflug

[James_Knowles]

I just wonder what they mean by "breaking pflug" do they mean defeat it

I assume that it means the same as using the other meisterhau to "break" the other guards per Ringeck's description. I don't know why scheilhau would be an exeception to zwerch, krump, etc. breaking other guards.

The way I was shown you can use low scheilhau to defeat pflug by stepping in, binding, and thrust/strike with the short edge. This is one fluid motion. It seems to work fine. (I'm still a klutz so I don't always execute correctly.)

If the opponent attempts to counter the thrust/strike, e.g. via kron, you can proceed to wind, throw, take, etc.

[JeffGentry]

well that is the question, we are asuming but when they say "break" do they mean to defeat it i.e you will knock there sword away or that you will force them to do something you want them to do. Or you will force them to take an action regardless, i may sound like i am picking but we don't realy know what they meant by "break" so many tactic's and technique's are valid, i don't think there is one right answer just trying to stimulate thought.

[david welch]

Randall,

Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you, but I wanted to check it out before I posted.

There is indeed a lower Schielhau to break plow, and also an upper Schielhau from Meyer that we are using to break plow in the method I wrote above.

I still stand by what I wrote, but apparently this discussion was about the lower one making my post unfortunately off-topic. I'll try to be a little more aware in the future. <img src="/forum/images/icons/blush.gif" alt="" />

[JeffGentry]

Hey
Was reading Meyer and cross refrenced Suttor. It appear's to me that when you throw the shot from Wraith your left foot is forward and it is a glacing blow (shielhau) to set aside the opponent's blade when they try to defend. When you do this you step forward with the right foot and "invert" (shortedge) to take there head. Have not tried it but i think it is right. it is IMHO, i will try it though.

[Jake_Norwood]

That sounds about right, Jeff. Two things, though:

1 - Sutor is a blatant copy of Meyer, so cross-referencing those two helps only to confirm things from one or the other.

2 - Try stepping forward with the right and then pivoting back a little with the left (a "Triangle Step"). That is also, incidentally, exactly what we see in the image, and it brings the short edge down more strongly.

Jake

[Brian Hunt]

Hey Jake,

do you find crossreferencing the illistrations or the text in Sutor to be of help fin your study of Meyer? It is always nice to be able to cross reference things. I really wanted to get out for your Meyer seminar, but lack of funds prohibited this. Darn the luck. Glad it was such a success, but since I know you, I knew it would be.

Thanks.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Jake_Norwood]

Not usually. The images in Sutor are direct copies (with different pants) of what's in Meyer, and there's less of them. I have referenced them once or twice, but it often seems to me a lot like reading plagerized John Clements or Mike Rassmussen on someone else's website instead of reading Midieval swordsmanship or going to shielhau.org. It might put things into some perspective, but the original is ultimately more satisfying.

Jake

[JeffGentry]

So basicly you are not breaking pflug you are putting his blade in motion and defeating his defense then striking, it is a subletie in the combat art that is hard to see at first look, that is the nature of the beast when you are trying to learn a physical art by way of the written word it is sometime's hard to see the subtle side. But that is why we are all here to stimulate thought and action.