Swordsmanship and Larp

[Ottosson]

ok, this will be my first post.

Im moving into the medeival swordsmanship but also larping and related things.

I bought John clements book "Medeival swordsmanship", very good book John.

Anyways to my question.
I read about the light boffers and ultralights used in larps, and that they together with rules that are more or less hampering to real tactics hinders any real swordsmanship...

now im not goin to complain about that as that is exactly what have kept me out of larping, seeing people running around playing tag isnt very exilerating.

But the mentality in atleast swedish larps seem to be changing somewhat when it comes to combat, from having hitpoints systems to judging how good a hit is...

But if i may ask the people on this board would be a good way protraying combat in larp so that real swordsmanship is put to the front as much as possible?

Thanks for your time and your thoughts.

[Gene Tausk]

Please re-register with your full name as required by our guidelines.

Thank you for your cooperation.


------->>>>>>>>>>>gene tausk
Forum moderator

[Johan Ottosson]

Sorry, done.

[Jake_Norwood]

But if i may ask the people on this board would be a good way protraying combat in larp so that real swordsmanship is put to the front as much as possible?

Hard to do, I would suppose. Perhaps any hit to a legputs you on the ground, wounded (crying in pain for effect), a blow to the arm forces a retreat, and a torso or head shot kills. At least as far as wounds go, that would probably keep things like fighting with one hand behind your back or on your knees from jacking up technique.

Jake

[Johan Ottosson]

true true, although a hit on the arm might just aswell send you sprawling on the ground...
when it comes to unarmored combat almost all hits should count

but armoured combat is something else, should people go after how good/hard the hit was?



there is safety to think about, and that comes down to 2 things the core and the tip.

the tip is hard, it should still look like a real tip but not hurt the victim or ruin the sword...

in sweden we use latex weaponry instead of boffers, its more expensive but its worlds apart in looks.

maybe a good core and tip can be combined with the latex?

[Shane Smith]

If the guys are in armour, they should not be throwing their edges into one-another anyhow. Perhaps grounding your opponent with a grappling move and gaining dominance there as well as any good thrust to the vital spots should be the rewarded actions(They were rewarded with your opponents death according to the source-texts <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) AS for using unarmoured tactics while in harness,that is one of my pet peeves and I am dead against it. Here is an idea of what we see in the historical texts when we speak of armoured fighting; http://www.thearma.org/essays/armoredlongsword.html

[Shane Smith]

Your suggestion is about the closest compromise I can think of Jake,but even then,I see problems. A full arm blow to the hands of your opponent would be an almost sure show-stopper as would one to the legs. There seems to be no truly satisfactory way to combine these two pursuits, but I think that your suggestions are the closest anyone is likely to get.

[Johan Ottosson]

showstopper? as in real injuries or acted ones? because jakes suggestion isnt that far from what we are using already over here.
swedish larps are not like us or uk larps.
it'd take some time to describe the difference, but if a us-larp is about bashing monsters, a scandinavian freeform is more about making a mesh of intrigues and giving an illusion of a working society(exceptions do exist).

Right now we have quite hard weaponsrules over here, so most weapons are ultralight glassfibre cored latex weaponry, which are alot stiffer than you'd think... still too light though

But when it comes to acting on damages, i do not believe that it would be problem... whatever effects you guys might think of(ok having limbs chopped off or blood flying is a bit hard to get in when the combat isnt staged...)

[David Craig]

If the guys are in armour, they should not be throwing their edges into one-another anyhow. Perhaps grounding your opponent with a grappling move and gaining dominance there as well as any good thrust to the vital spots should be the rewarded actions(They were rewarded with your opponents death according to the source-texts ) AS for using unarmoured tactics while in harness,that is one of my pet peeves and I am dead against it. Here is an idea of what we see in the historical texts when we speak of armoured fighting; http://www.thearma.org/essays/armoredlongsword.html

Shane Smith~ARMA Virginia Beach
ARMA Forum Moderator

Shane,

Your response got me thinking of something that I have wondered about before. What about a partially armored opponent? Not all combatants would have been either unarmored or wearing full harness, there are of course various states in between. What amount of armor does it take to force a shift to "armored fighting" tactics? And is there any mention of this issue in the historical sources?

David Craig

[Shane Smith]

That's a good(and tough) question. In my experience test-cutting against plate and maille armours,I would say that a swords edge is very inefficient in dealing with either. In spite of what the period illuminations often show,I have never seen good rivited or welded maille cut by a sword to any significant degree at my own hands or by those of another. I cut against some of George's welded maille in Tennessee a couple of weekends back and the results were pretty unimpressive just as they have been with my earlier tests against imported riveted maille(Butted maille on the other hand is frail). That said,while the maille itself was not damaged much,the cardboard tube beneath was caved in and crushed so blunt trauma to the opponent is pretty darn likely.Plate has never been impressed by any sword cut that I have seen or performed.

Further testing of thrusting techniques on maille had mixed results. We were able to thrust a DT sharp and pointy right through imported riveted maille with ease as the rivet simply pulled through



The welded maille was completely unimpressed with this same tactic although you will have still fed your opponent a couple of inches of the thin point before the rings deformed enough to stop it.

I guess the trick is this; If the other guy is wearing a hauberk, throw a cut or two into his shoulders as chance allows...You may break one! If he has no helm,cleave his skull regardless of his armour.If he has plate legs(or even hardened leather) and arms over a hauberk AND a helm,at that point, I'm going to halfsword. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

[JohnGallego]

Here' another follow up Shane, what about other weapons?

Have you tested articulated plate against other weapons common in the middle ages, like hammer, flails, maces, etc?

And how does the longsword compare to these weapons in it's effectiveness against plate armor?

[JeanryChandler]

thanks for posting that shane, thats very interesting. You should tell Eric Schmidt about some of your tests.

How common was welded mail historically? From what time period?

DB