Amazing Misinformation

[JeffGentry]

John
I read this when it first was posted and he did change it, he got rid of the weight and lenght quote's.

if he believed what he was saying why did he change it? seem's strange to me to write about something you don't realy know and then to not believe what your saying.

Jeff

[Randall Pleasant]

Matt wrote:
But you can't blame the guy, he does sport fencing and choreography.

As best I can tell the purpose of the article was to educate, as such it is a major failure. If the author is not responsible for the mis-information in his article then who is?

[Matt Shields]

Yes, your right, he does need to be held responsible. I just wanted to point out that he didn't invent this nonsense himself. He comes from a very strong background of it.

Maybe the fact that I myself spouted off less severe comments about Medieval Combat just several years ago turned me a bit soft towards certain ignorance.
I didn't come up with the idea that Knights only fought other Knights, and only for ransom money, because of course with all their "stupid" armor they couldn't raise to their feet one they were dismounted. I learned it from a friend, who learned it from his history teacher (who taught 210 students a semester.)

[JeffGentry]

Hey Matt

with all their "stupid" armor they couldn't raise to their feet one they were dismounted.

Sad to say i used to think that too. lol

Jeff

[Daniel_Vince]

So the internet spewed forth another plagiarist, liar, and/or idiot talking about swords. It's nothing we haven't seen before.

[Stacy Clifford]

But you can't blame the guy, he does sport fencing and choreography.

I can too blame him. I did a year of sport fencing back in college before I ever heard about this organization, and though I was never really "indoctrinated", I think my education was sound enough to prevent me from ever believing that a sword could ever weigh more than a box full of textbooks. Even the most obnoxiously designed SLOs don't hardly weigh more than my cat. I can see somebody believing that swords could weigh 10-15 pounds since it's at least possible to build an object resembling a sword that weighs that much, but anybody who falls for that 50-70 pound nonsense is clearly out of touch with the physical universe. A sword made of plutonium couldn't weigh that much. That would be like trying to swing a railroad tie or a labrador retriever. Anyone who forsakes common sense in favor of that kind of drivel deserves some verbal abuse. Fortunately most of the fencers I met were much more reasonable and educated people. I'm hoping this guy removed the reference at the request of his own colleagues.

[John_Clements]

Poster: Matt Shields
Subject: Re: Amazing Misinformation

Yes, your right, he does need to be held responsible. I just wanted to point out that he didn't invent this nonsense himself. He comes from a very strong background of it.

Matt, you are entirely right. There is a whole community of people who have long accepted this nonsense going back more than 150 years. Dr. Anglo described some of it, I've writen on it many times before, and I continue to research and document its pervasive influence on arms curators, choreographers, fencing historians, medievalists, Renaissance scholars, game makers, and historical fencing students. Adressing this ignorance is one of ARMA's goals.

JC

..."plutonium" sword..you crack me up, Stace

[David Craig]

o the internet spewed forth another plagiarist, liar, and/or idiot talking about swords. It's nothing we haven't seen before.

True, although one should expect better from a supposedly historical article on a major fencing website. I've seen a lot of nonsense passing itself off as history on the web -- and not just about swords for that matter. But writing that swords weighed 50-70lbs is a particularly egregious butchering of history that defies basic common sense.

David Craig

[ColinWheeler]

Ignorance about armor seems to be just as prevalent (in my experience, even more so). The idea that a man in an articulated plate harness cannot move "properly" or quickly is just as widespread as the misconceptions about how much a medieval sword weighed. I can remember how pleased and surprised I was, when I first wore a Wisby COP over mail, with steel and boiled leather for my limbs. I walked around for a few minutes, feeling how awkward it was to stride around. Then, a light-bulb went on in my head, and I dropped into a fighting stance, and put my arms into a high guard with shield. Suddenly, the armor wasn't in my way...it wanted to move with me, as long as I was moving like a man in a fight, not a man going for a stroll. Nowadays, I don't try to verbally explain...I throw my hauberk at people, and tell them to put it on. "Hey...it's not so heavy now...it feels kinda right...I can still move, I just feel more solid, somehow.", they say. "Exactly!", I reply...

Colin Wheeler

[Erich Wagner]

Post deleted by John_Clements

[Doug Marnick]

I remember a particular show on History Channel that opened my awareness. Although the title eludes me, this episode called "Knights" featured a mounted police officer and polo player learning some of the skills in which knights were trained. I'll never forget when John Waller had his two assistants do a set of pushups in full plate and then sprint a 40 yard dash, keeping even with unarmored opponents, if I remember correctly.
Can anyone who has had the pleasure of donning full armor share any feats of agility that defy historical sterotypes? Somersaults? Backflips? Fifty-pound sword tossing? The most common stereotype I've heard is the concept of a fallen knight being a "helpless turtle on his back".

[TimSheetz]

Hey!!!!

Maybe it was a typo and they meant 50 - 70 OUNCES. That would work out to be roughly 3-4 pounds.... Yeah, that's gotta be it. :--)

I never held a plutonium sword.... just a depleted Uranium one. It was rather heavy, and Very short... made primarily for thrusting vs armor......


Tim

[Daniel_Vince]

True, although one should expect better from a supposedly historical article on a major fencing website. I've seen a lot of nonsense passing itself off as history on the web -- and not just about swords for that matter. But writing that swords weighed 50-70lbs is a particularly egregious butchering of history that defies basic common sense.

Good point; I'll confess to being very jaded when it comes to the butchering of history. In my view, what we need here is some positive public exposure. The web will always be full of people who think longswords weighed 50 pounds, just as it will always be full of ether scientists and flat-earthers. If we can change the public perception of WMA, we can at least get these people exposed for the ignoramuses they are.

[Shane Smith]

Excellent observation! I completely agree.Moving well in armour is no great feat. I can run and do rolls in mine with no problem(for hours,literally). The greatest discomfort is that which comes from a lack of airflow on a hot summers day.It can get VERY hot inside that plate and gambeson! <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[JeanryChandler]

If I could find a video clip of somebody doing a handspring in plate armor I would win a standing $50 bet....

DB