Terrain Variations

[Doug Marnick]

I assume that most people practice or spar in a gymnasium, backyard, or in my case, public park. I was curious if anyone has tried techniques on varying terrains and if he/she could share insights about them. My question goes beyond wood floors, concrete, or grass. I would like to hear from those of you who have practiced/sparred on snow, ice, sand, mud, in the woods, etc. Also, a common perception is that on uneven ground, the person who is higher up has the advantage. Is this necessarily true for a swordfight? Has anyone tried sparring on the side of a hill or set up a situation where one opponent was above the other in some way? Finally, I know modern translations of Sun-tzu have entire sections or chapters devoted to his writing about terrain, but what do the European sources have to say on the subject?

[robrobertson]

Yes, If you'd like to have fun, practice within a stairwell! One can hold off many.

While fighting on ice is a slippery subject, and hazardous to the tailbone, you DO quickly learn the importance of balance.

As for on a hillside, that was the highlanders preferred terrain! Here's a hint for you, when leaping (especially when you're armed) land with the rear foot first.

I gotta run for right now. Good luck! I'm interested in reading what others post.

Good topic!

Rob

[Randall Pleasant]

Doug Marnick wrote:
...what do the European sources have to say on the subject?

I think it is Silver who says that you should check out the ground as you approach your adversary.

[Mike Shustock]

I actually agree with Rob on this... Good in the gym, backyard, park is one thing...er 3 things. <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" /> But unless training incorporates "real life" scenerios I would question it's validity when put to the "test." Terrain is paramount, perfect weather for fighting is "Never" perfect"

Mike

[Casper Bradak]

It can be tough to fight in the snow in medieval shoes, especially with armour. You really have to narrow your footwork.

[TimSheetz]

I've sparred in about 6-12 inches of snow with uneven ground below it.

Basically, if you practice on a wood floor with historical shoes - that are a bit slippery - the snow is easy.. with one addition. You must raise your feet when you step.. kind of lifting them up before moveing. Once you are used to doing this you can move very quickly and really use a lot of your techniques. Snow is also good for closing as other tend to forget to modify their footwork and fall more easily.

I have sparred on a steep slope. The key advantage for the higher elevated is rest. You must expend more energy advancing up hill... that is why castles were usually built on hills I guess.

To make fighting up hill easier for you ... do lots of sprints up hills.

Peace,

Tim

[Anthony Boyd]

I've trained in snow, sand, grass, water, and gravel, and on tile, wood, concrete, asphalt, and vinyl.

I feel that taking the time to really figure out how your stances and footwork function to create stability and facilitate the transmission of force is an essential ingredient in making your practice on various surfaces take root.

[Jeffrey Hull]

DM:

I cannot recall the last time I got to train inside on a nice flat wooden floor. I do most of my stuff outdoors, in all sorts of weather.

The variety of surfaces: grass (dry &amp; wet), dirt, mud, leaves (dry &amp; wet), snow, concrete (dry &amp; wet); as well as flat, sloped, and stepped.

I think that it is a good idea to consider what Siber (1491) said:

*In aller arbeitt vmb tritt
dz egevertt mach mitt*

*In all work tread roundabout
Thus the daring fellow wins out*

So I take his "tritt" to mean "tread", such that the fighter needs to cultivate actual treading, as opposed to casual stepping or simple sliding or slothful dragging of the feet, as required to deal with greatest variety of terrain.

Good luck,

JH

[robrobertson]

Terrain is paramount, perfect weather for fighting is "Never" perfect"

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That reminds me of my army days. You could always tell the new butterbars by their answers. They loved to say " according to the manual, in the best case scenario ..."

Huh, we couldn't pull off best case scenarios in training, and they wanted to depend on that in COMBAT? I hated having to 'break in' those guys.

Mike's right! If you're going to do it right, you've got to set things up to make them MISERABLE!

(Maniacal laugh)

Rob

[Mike Shustock]

Some of the best "fights" I've ever had weren't on even terrain...

Some of the best training out there can be found in a muddy trash dump, in a moderate down pour of 40 degrees tempertures by two combatants that are dead tired already from working a 16 hour shift. I'm not so sure the technique would be grande but the spirit generated sure would be.

That would be a good test of a person's STEEL!!!

IMHO!!

M

[Dave Dickey]

Except for one class, all of our stuff is outside no matter what the weather, and it really makes a big difference. As the students are sliding or falling down in the mud I am constantly hammering home how important terrain training is. My favorite is the snow, expecially when there is a couple of feet of it on the ground...hahahaha.... <img src="/forum/images/icons/cool.gif" alt="" />

[leam hall]

Mike, I think you've hit on part of it. "Steel", or "character", is what tends to win out no matter what school or technique one comes from. A dedicated pursuit tends to wear out the half-hearted.

You guys have inspired me to take my training up a notch. I've been doing a warm up work out in the grass near the apartment. It's been easy to slack off when the rain is still coming down. Now I'll go out in it, and also do a few drills on the slope that goes into the creek.

I'll probably fall fairly often but that's why we have extra padding there, isn't it? <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />