Felling and indes

[JeffGentry]

Hello all
Well i have been aqainting myself more with Ringeck, and noticed that he give's quit abit of time to feeling and indes.

i have seen this in alot of other manuscript's, and i thought i understood the concept, it caught my attention because of the similarity to what Meyer say's about indes, and i now find myself confused and excited because after working on this at practice tonight i think i have a new found understanding of this whole Art of fencing.

Ringeck say's

"You shall remember the word simultaneously(indes) at all the bind's at the sword, for simultaneously(indes) doubles(dupliert) and indes changes(mutiert), indes leaps through(durchalauffen) and indes takes the cut and indes wrestles(ringt), and indes takes the sword(schwertnehmen) to disarm him. Indes does in fencing whatever your heart desires. Indes is a sharp word that cuts all fencers that do not know it. And indes is the key with which the art of fencing is unlocked.

Meyer say's

Whichever is in the After, that is striving so that he always must displace, shall think of the words "Just As", and thereon not forget, that through them the Before will again be achieved, that he then can withdraw without damage, however he who does not pay attention to this, if he too soon undertakes to strive to you, will indeed never learn to fence well.

Ringeck advocte's winding, playing with this tonight and re reading some of the example's Meyer use's these can all be done the way Ringeck's does his wind to thrust except Meyer use's the twitch cut, how does this apply to the four opening's or does it? Ringeck also teach's the four opening's.

Does anyone have any thought's on this, Indes and feeling at the bind?

Jeff

[Casper Bradak]

Without indes and feeling, a bind is nothing more than a chance for conversation.

[Brian Hunt]

LOL,

Hollywood dialog here I come. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

really funny Casper.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Jeffrey Hull]

Well, you are on the right track to utilise his ideas about In Des and Fuehlen. JH

[JeffGentry]

Hey Casper

Without indes and feeling, a bind is nothing more than a chance for conversation.

well that is pretty much what i was doing, lol, i didn't understand that in feeling at the bind and moving as soon as you feel whether he is weak or strong is what indes and fuhlen is all about and you don't need to seperate so much as move to cut, thrust or slice,(dre wunder), or even go to ringenschwert, it is what Meyer term's the Handwork now i am realizing why he call's it that, it just seemed amazing to block a shot and realize he is hard on the bind lift the hilt and thrust to a low opening or whatever instead of block and get out but to stay in and drive to a thrust it realy felt like i was learning to fence, and even when i was in the nach i could go to the vor if i felt his strength in the bind and moved to attack.

It all seemed obscure before now it is just a matter of me learning to do it and use it.

Jeff

[philippewillaume]

Hello Jeff you are preaching to choir here. (I know what a surprise.)

I think fullen is the essence of ringeck, not winden or any other technique.

Fullen tell you what technique to do.
You do not have to know in advance what your next move will be, your opponent will give it to you, fullen is the mean to identifying that. I.e. do not force it take what is there.

Fullen and indes are inextricably linked because toy need to develop fullen as too immediately fells the flow.
If you have followed the other principles (ie keep the point toward him never versetzen but only use master haw absetzen, it does no matter if it is a trap or not, you have minimized your reaction time and the initial strike abzetzen has set you up for a clear line of attack and close his shortest one.

If you assume that it is a system in itself.
If you look at how the manual you see that it give you a solution for all the case of figure that can present themselves at the bind (or if you follow the method for that matter) he can be too strong too weak or just right. And we have an answer to all that.

Philippe (mono manual- ringeck is the daddy type of guy)

[JeffGentry]

Hey Philippe
didn't mean to sound like i was preaching.

Fullen and indes are inextricably linked because toy need to develop fullen as too immediately fells the flow

That is it, i was thinking indes was when he moved you moved not necessarily at the bind, the bind occure's so quickly i would block /parry and move on to something else, never thought to press the sword at the bind and work from there Ringeck just explain's it better i think although i did have to read two diffrent translation's(lol), we even used Meyer's twitch while pressing the bind and found all sort's of opening's.

I was suffering from confusion on this and wondered what other insight's other's had on this.

Jeff

[philippewillaume]

Hello jeff

I do not think that you are preaching.
Preaching to the choir is a figure of speech meaning that I am totally of the same opinion as you are. (ie evangelizing someone already converted).

You are right, the bind happens and last a small amount of time and I think that why you have to go with the flow and take whatever is there.

[John_Clements]

Jeff, this is covered in the Member Area Study Guide for Master L.

[JeffGentry]

Hey John
I'll check it out as soon as i get my member password <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .

Jeff