Hey look at me I bought a book...is it enough?

[Mike Sheffield]

Question: as a smith who was trained in Japanese arts, when I make a Occidental sword would I be doing a great disservice to my customers not having gone as in depth with the western way? I did just buy Mr. Clements book Medieval Swordsmanship. I joined this forum and bought this book hoping to gain a little insight into what you as Occidental stylist would need. The problem I'm now having is is that enough? Should I go as in depth as I have with Japanese styles? Maybe I'm just over thinking again.

[Vincent Le Chevalier]

Should I go as in depth as I have with Japanese styles?

Well... Why shouldn't you?

[Jonathan Newhall]

Question: as a smith who was trained in Japanese arts, when I make a Occidental sword would I be doing a great disservice to my customers not having gone as in depth with the western way?

That's like asking "as a gun smith who is skilled in making M4s and M16s would I be doing a disservice to my customers if I attempted to make an AK-47 without first learning about it?"

The answer, of course, is going to be yes. You are specialized in a different region of the same art - similar, but not the same, and both deserve just as much attention when it comes to making pieces for customers or yourself.

I did just buy Mr. Clements book Medieval Swordsmanship. I joined this forum and bought this book hoping to gain a little insight into what you as Occidental stylist would need.

Hmm, I think that a study of the blades themselves as well as that of their use would be a key. Basically, however you learned to forge eastern weaponry, apply that to how you learn to forge western weaponry - they're different and deserve individual attention.

The problem I'm now having is is that enough? Should I go as in depth as I have with Japanese styles? Maybe I'm just over thinking again.

You should certainly go just as in depth into learning how to design western swords if you have a customer who wants one! I wouldn't build a mac-based computer and give it to a customer if all I knew how to make was windows-based computers, of course I'd research the other (very similar, but still different) platform thoroughly before I would commit to making one in order to assure quality to my customer(s) and make sure they would buy my products again.

[Jaron Bernstein]

Question: as a smith who was trained in Japanese arts, when I make a Occidental sword would I be doing a great disservice to my customers not having gone as in depth with the western way? I did just buy Mr. Clements book Medieval Swordsmanship. I joined this forum and bought this book hoping to gain a little insight into what you as Occidental stylist would need. The problem I'm now having is is that enough? Should I go as in depth as I have with Japanese styles? Maybe I'm just over thinking again.

You might read Oakeshott's books and handle as many western antique blades as possible.

[Mike Sheffield]

Question: as a smith who was trained in Japanese arts, when I make a Occidental sword would I be doing a great disservice to my customers not having gone as in depth with the western way?

That's like asking "as a gun smith who is skilled in making M4s and M16s would I be doing a disservice to my customers if I attempted to make an AK-47 without first learning about it?"

The answer, of course, is going to be yes. You are specialized in a different region of the same art - similar, but not the same, and both deserve just as much attention when it comes to making pieces for customers or yourself.

I did just buy Mr. Clements book Medieval Swordsmanship. I joined this forum and bought this book hoping to gain a little insight into what you as Occidental stylist would need.

Hmm, I think that a study of the blades themselves as well as that of their use would be a key. Basically, however you learned to forge eastern weaponry, apply that to how you learn to forge western weaponry - they're different and deserve individual attention.

The problem I'm now having is is that enough? Should I go as in depth as I have with Japanese styles? Maybe I'm just over thinking again.

You should certainly go just as in depth into learning how to design western swords if you have a customer who wants one! I wouldn't build a mac-based computer and give it to a customer if all I knew how to make was windows-based computers, of course I'd research the other (very similar, but still different) platform thoroughly before I would commit to making one in order to assure quality to my customer(s) and make sure they would buy my products again.

Actually I learned the modern bladesmithing. Mostly American knife making. It's not like I would be making a completely useless blade. to either a Japanese, Western, or even a Chinese stylist. I just feel that a little martial arts knowledge helps. Remember most smiths throughout history weren't full blown warriors. I guess I answered my own question a little.

[Mike Sheffield]

You might read Oakeshott's books and handle as many western antique blades as possible.

Thanks that is good advice

I think after some good thinking today I have come to the conclusion that to be a good smith I must 1st know the materials I'm working with. How to heattreat them as well as their limitations and strengths. 2nd know a little about the craft of the customers. It is not needed to be a swordsman to be a smith, but it helps to have a base knowledge of his craft, so one knows where the customer is coming from. I do however appreciate the replies. Thank you.

[Jonathan Newhall]

Actually I learned the modern bladesmithing. Mostly American knife making.

Then I'd recommend, as before, going as in depth as possible into the making of various swords in technique before attempting to forge them for customers.

I

t's not like I would be making a completely useless blade. to either a Japanese, Western, or even a Chinese stylist. I just feel that a little martial arts knowledge helps. Remember most smiths throughout history weren't full blown warriors. I guess I answered my own question a little.

Completely useless? No, but nowhere near properly balanced I'd guess. It takes a lot of practice to learn how to make a full-sized sword that behaves like a proper sword, make sure to keep practicing and handling both antiques and modern reproductions of any kind of sword you think you want to forge in the future, experience is great when coupled with a few examples.

As for how far in you should learn the use and martial history? I'd say another book or two couldn't hurt, Clements' medieval swordsmanship work is a tad outdated at this point, although most of it is still very valid.

When you pick up a replica sword from, say, Albion, give it a few practice swings using what you found in the books to get how your own finished work should feel and handle, then try to recreate that is the best way to do it I guess - I'm no bladesmith, though :p

[Keith Culbertson]

Hello Michael, just a note I hope you can take to heart---I am sure you have studied hard and want to do the right thing for this new direction, but please understand that it is a new deirection. There are plenty of great knifemakers out there who turn out sword-like objects, but if you want to craft a sword, you will have to learn a whole different set of techniques to find the strange, almost magical balance between resilience and resistance, and other such issues. I urge you to read some of the articles here on the ARMA website by Paul Champagne (RIP), or contact other sword-smiths like Kevin Cashen and Peter Johannsen (Albion) before you dive in. I certainly wish you the best in your endeavor,

sincerely

[Jaron Bernstein]

Question: as a smith who was trained in Japanese arts, when I make a Occidental sword would I be doing a great disservice to my customers not having gone as in depth with the western way? I did just buy Mr. Clements book Medieval Swordsmanship. I joined this forum and bought this book hoping to gain a little insight into what you as Occidental stylist would need. The problem I'm now having is is that enough? Should I go as in depth as I have with Japanese styles? Maybe I'm just over thinking again.

It really isn't that different than what you already know. How do you learn to forge a really good historically accurate katana? Study with Japanese smiths who do the real thing. Handle, record the measurements/weights, and study the metallurgy of real antique katana blades. Train a bit in JSA (Japanese Sword Arts) for a sense of how they were used.

Just replace western with katana and that is your formula for western blades.

[Mike Sheffield]

Then I'd recommend, as before, going as in depth as possible into the making of various swords in technique before attempting to forge them for customers.


Completely useless? No, but nowhere near properly balanced I'd guess. It takes a lot of practice to learn how to make a full-sized sword that behaves like a proper sword, make sure to keep practicing and handling both antiques and modern reproductions of any kind of sword you think you want to forge in the future, experience is great when coupled with a few examples.

As for how far in you should learn the use and martial history? I'd say another book or two couldn't hurt, Clements' medieval swordsmanship work is a tad outdated at this point, although most of it is still very valid.

When you pick up a replica sword from, say, Albion, give it a few practice swings using what you found in the books to get how your own finished work should feel and handle, then try to recreate that is the best way to do it I guess - I'm no bladesmith, though :p

Yes this is what I was thinking. It also takes a lot of practice to properly make a knife.

[Mike Sheffield]

Hello Michael, just a note I hope you can take to heart---I am sure you have studied hard and want to do the right thing for this new direction, but please understand that it is a new deirection. There are plenty of great knifemakers out there who turn out sword-like objects, but if you want to craft a sword, you will have to learn a whole different set of techniques to find the strange, almost magical balance between resilience and resistance, and other such issues. I urge you to read some of the articles here on the ARMA website by Paul Champagne (RIP), or contact other sword-smiths like Kevin Cashen and Peter Johannsen (Albion) before you dive in. I certainly wish you the best in your endeavor,

sincerely

Actually it is the same with a knife. You have to remember not all knives have the same purpose. They have to be harder for slicing operations, but not too brittle. They must be tougher for things like fighting, but still hold a decent edge. I know the sword will be a bit more daunting...quite a bit. That is why I am getting as much info now. It may even be 2 more years before I try one. I just want to make sure I put as much studying into it before I jump in. Not to sound nasty, but could you call me Mike. I'm not trying to be mean, it is just my wife and my family get to call me that. Mike is good. Mike S. is also good. Sheffield, Sheffy, and at work they call me Big Ern (long story). Yeah it is a tragedy to have lost such a great smith.

[Mike Sheffield]

Thanks Jaron. I think I'm on the same page as you now.

[Jaron Bernstein]

Thanks Jaron. I think I'm on the same page as you now.

Ewart Oakeshott (z"l) is probably the best author on western sword typologies from the dark ages (type X) to early Renn. periods (type XIX). Another fellow named Peterson (if memory serves) did the taxonomy of viking era swords. Finally, www.albion-swords.com are the leading commercial makers right now of accurate replica blades. I am sure they can steer your research further.

[Mike Sheffield]

Thanks.