Some translations I would defintely buy.

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Stuart McDermid
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Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Stuart McDermid » Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:04 pm

Hi Guys,

Here is my personal wishlist of translations I would like to see published.

1. Manual Del Baratero.
2. P. Hector Mair.
3. Leckuchner.
4. Pietro Monte
5. The Marquis of Newcastle's Manual.

What do other folks want?
Cheers,
Stu.

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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Guest » Wed Jul 02, 2003 12:39 am

Hi Stu!

I'll buy any translation/publication that comes out, but I'm especially waiting on.

1. Fiore
2. Fabris

and also interested in Marcelli.

Are any ARMA members working on a Marcelli translation?

Mike

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Mike Cartier
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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Mike Cartier » Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:29 am

Any Joachim Meyer stuff
Mike Cartier
Meyer Frei Fechter
www.freifechter.com

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Brian Hunt
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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Brian Hunt » Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:44 am

Some stuff I would buy,

I33
Peter von Danzig
Anything on the Getty version of Fiore
Mair
Meyer
Goliath

And some books I would buy

Anything by John Clements
Something good on sword and buckler.
A good book on the spanish style of rapier (preferably not by Martinez)
Anything good on sword and shield.
I would also love to see a good interpretation of Silver.

Just a few things off of my wish list. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Brian Hunt.
Tuus matar hamsterius est, et tuus pater buca sabucorum fundor!

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Stuart McDermid
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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Stuart McDermid » Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:15 pm

Hey Brian?

Do you have Spada? There is an article by my instructors with heaps of iconographic evidence that much of shield play was conducted the same way.

Your wishes regarding 1.33 and Silver soon to be fulfilled. Paul Wagner's Silver book will be out I believe at Christmas and he has written a book on 1.33 with Stephen Hand however I am not sure how long that one will be.
Cheers,
Stu.

Stuart McDermid
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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Stuart McDermid » Thu Jul 03, 2003 9:00 am

Hi Brian,

Why not by Maestro Martinez?

Our chief instructor came back from America last week after training with the Maestro and added a few inches to everybodies lunge as well as making our cavere's easier and faster.

You should know that the Martinez folks use point darret's on their Italian epee's (my god I want to do some duelling epee, it's like rapier with no cuts and a very fast, very agile weapon) and are working on some for their rapiers. You don't get much more "martially sound" than a point that sticks like a real one and has to be treated as such. These folks IMHO are the real deal.

I have never trained with Maestro Martinez, his wife or any of the students but I am thankful for the extra tidbits that our instructor gets every time he trains at the Martinez Academy.
Cheers,
Stu.

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Brian Hunt
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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Brian Hunt » Thu Jul 03, 2003 10:25 am

Stuart,

My copy of Spada should be arriving today. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> I purchased it after reading the thread on the sword and shield work in it. I am looking forward to reading it rather than just trying to glean info via what someone else says about it.

I look forward to the Silver and the I33.

As for Martinez, I am happy for you that you have gained something of value for yourself there, but I have a 2-fold reason for wishing for a book by someone else. I will do my best to be polite and nice, since you ask for my reasons nicely.

First of all, I would love to see a different point of view on the Spanish school of fence other than the Martinez one. Diversity in learning helps us to be more well informed on a subject rather than just blindly following one school of thought.

Secondly, I don't really believe him on lineage, and the need for there to be a master giving to a student who becomes a master and so on. While I am sure that he has his place, and is probably quite skilled at what he does ( I can't say for sure here since I have never met him - or seen his skills in person - I am however going on his writings that I have personally read) I feel inclined to look elsewhere for information if it is availible. I hope that I have managed to state my view point, without being insulting to someone that I am sure works very hard, and is dedicated to his art. But since it is my money and time, I will choose to spend it where I feel it may be of the most value to me. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just my opinion (and you know what they say about opinions).

Brian Hunt.

P.S. Here are some of his own words on Lineage and Masters, so that others may read them and form their own opinions.

"In regard to the question of lineage, I come from a "Living
Tradition" in the weapons and styles of the classical period and the
late historical periods because I learned complete systems directly
from a master who learned from his master. In fact my linage is in
complete systems of fencing that can be traced directly back to the
Italian and the French academies of the 19th century. These systems
can then be traced back to the 17th century. This linage can be
verified by the fact that the systems are documented in the period
treatises. The transmission of a traditional line of fencing
knowledge (LIVING TRADITION) can only be attained through a master
disciple relationship. The master of that lineage must have attained
his knowledge through his master, who in turn received the
transmission of knowledge from his master. This chain of knowledge
cannot be gained through the reading and study of treatises."
Tuus matar hamsterius est, et tuus pater buca sabucorum fundor!



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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:43 am

I have attended two west coast sword symposiums in which Mr. Martinez taught. I did not participate in either class, but I took the opportunity to observe him and his art for the entire class duration. I being primarily a Swetnam and Silver man I was compelled by curiosity to review the Spanish fight, so I purchased his complete set of videos. After working through the videos, I was able to demonstrate the art with my combat group in instruction, then in full on free sparring (Italian vs Spanish). It worked respectably and I was quite pleased with it. Understand that I had only achieved some rudimentary level of proficiency.

Being a purist at heart, I too questioned the authenticity. Although there are sources on the Spanish fight, and I have read several, none of the sources really seemed to be solid enough for me to grasp the essence of the fight.

My enlightenment came once again by George Silver’s Paradoxes. He details the Spanish fight for what it really is: (please refer to the whole section (9) for a more detailed description)
________________________________________________________________________

“But the Spaniard in his fight, both safely to defend himself, and to endanger his enemy, has but one lying, and two wards to learn, wherein a man with small practice in a very short time may become perfect.”
“This is the manner of the Spanish fight. They stand as brave as they can with their bodies straight upright, narrow spaced, with their feet continually moving, as if they were in a dance, holding forth their arms and rapiers very straight against the face or bodies of their enemies, and this is the only lying to accomplish that kind of fight.”
________________________________________________________________________
What I had observed is that Mr. Martinez’s Spanish fight appears to follow Silver’s description exactly. The fundamentals of his art match the fundamentals of Silver’s description. Once I made this connection, I felt joyous that old text seems to collaborate what was being demonstrated by Mr. Martinez. There are no guarantee’s to authenticity, and truly, we may never really know, but to me, it feels right.

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Joachim Nilsson
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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Joachim Nilsson » Thu Jul 03, 2003 1:00 pm

Mika Cartier<<<<<< Have you checked out the translation of Meyer available at http://www.schielhau.org/Meyer.title.html ?
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Shane Smith
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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Shane Smith » Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:41 pm

Thanks for the link Joachim <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Stuart McDermid
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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Stuart McDermid » Thu Jul 03, 2003 6:22 pm

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your candid reply.

It should be pointed out here that the Maestro claims no Lineage in Spanish Rapier at all and freely admits that it is a reconstruction.

Having said that, multiple points of view on the same material is always a good thing and there are usually good points and bad points to anyone's interpretation of anything.

Let us know what you think of Spada.

Bob,

All I have to say is the following.

The English the English The English are best,
we wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest
-Flanders and Swan. (do a google search for the rest of this fine song;))

Silver was right. Swetnam's system is single rapier is IMHO genius. It is the only one I have found that doen't look significantly different under pressure to how it looks in practice.
Cheers,
Stu.

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Joachim Nilsson
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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Joachim Nilsson » Thu Jul 03, 2003 9:26 pm

Mr Smith<<<< You're most welcome! <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> Have just started looking at that particular fechtbuch myself. The translation seems okay, and Meyer himself has a lot of interesting things to say about longswordning. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Found an explanation of schielhau that helped me alot.

Don't know if I'm going to have the patience to study Meyer that exstensively right now though. Have recently ordered the translation of Fillipo Vadi's Arte Gladitoria. Which seems very promising. <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />
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Jake_Norwood
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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Jake_Norwood » Thu Jul 03, 2003 9:51 pm

I've gotten lots of mileage out of Rassmussen's Meyer translation. It's my favorite manual by far.

Jake
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ARMA Deputy Director

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Brian Hunt
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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Brian Hunt » Thu Jul 03, 2003 9:52 pm

Hi Stuart,

Thank you for your reply. As I stated, I only know Martinez from his writings that I have read. I appreciate you telling me that Maestro Martinez claims no Lineage in Spanish Rapier. I noticed that He has an article in Spada on Spanish Rapier that I will read thourghly and give the man the benifit of the doubt. That is only fair, honest, and scholarly. After all as you have already stated, there are good and bad points to anyones interpretation. I will be happy to give you my opinion of Spada after I have had the time to properly digest it. But first I must finish chewing my latest meal before I can do so. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

repectfully

Brian Hunt.
Tuus matar hamsterius est, et tuus pater buca sabucorum fundor!



http://www.paulushectormair.com

http://www.emerytelcom.net/users/blhunt/sales.htm

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Mike Cartier
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Re: Some translations I would defintely buy.

Postby Mike Cartier » Thu Jul 03, 2003 9:52 pm

yes thanks Joachim
love the site.
be sure to check out the meyer longsword elist too
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Meyer_longsword/

Higgins sword guild will have a meyer long sword cd release sometime this year which i eargerly await.
Mike Cartier

Meyer Frei Fechter

www.freifechter.com


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