More Slum - Fu: Sparring on the cheap

[JeanryChandler]

>Jonathan was talking about the fact that a hard block with a >dagger against a sword really doesn't stop the sword. The >best you can hope for is to deflect your opponents attack. A >strong attack blocked by the strongest dagger block can >still cut all the way through.


Ah, now I understand what he was getting at. Yeah, I'm aware of this, it works the same with the weapons I use, but again, this is one of those things, like maybe in a similar manner to the lower leg blocks, in practice I think it's a bit more flexible than in the books.

What I have learned from experinece is that when fighting with dagger and sword, the dagger can deflect and misdirect thrusts quite well by itself, and can parry strikes which aren't maximum strength. When a harder strike or even a very hard lunge comes in, I will parry with the dagger and my sword together, then often use the dagger to try to bind his weapon while countering with the sword, if possible.

When I sense that someone is striking with less than maximum force, and aiming at me center mass, I'll often parry with the dagger which then allows me to strike simultaneously with my sword, often at their own sword arm or some other part of their body exposed during their attack.

In the clip you saw we were both actually using pretty heavy long-swords single handed, so the swings were not coming as hard as if they were two-handed, or even perhaps single handed with a shorter but equally heavy sword.

This is something I've learned to play with and perhaps push my luck on, but it seems to work for me.

I suspect incidentally that another reason some Rondel daggers were so heavily built was to make them better at parrying.

JR

[JeanryChandler]

Please forgive my ignorance, but can you explain these moves (or guards, or blocks or strikes) to me in simple english? (or link to an image or diagram?)

: schrankhut, boar's tooth, versetzen, Krumphau

[Lance Chan]

One thing that we've to aware in sparring is that, we only die once in real life.

That's why we've to practice on the techniques that work in the safe way, not by pushing lucks.

Talking about parrying with rondel daggers, last time I was practicing with a guy who used a chinese jian, heavier and longer than rondel daggers for sure. I penetrated his parry with my long sword every time with my cuts, single handed and double handed. Properly executed single handed cuts can be very powerful with the "lashing out" motion.

Now, guess what will happen if he was using a dagger.... The result would be even uglier. I got video of that fight and if you want, I may show you.

[JeanryChandler]

>One thing that we've to aware in sparring is that, we only die >once in real life.
>That's why we've to practice on the techniques that work in >the safe way, not by pushing lucks.

Ah... I see your point. Perhaps I should file that technique in the "armored combat only" category.

>Properly executed single handed cuts can be very powerful with the "lashing out" motion.

I know, my point was only that in that particular clip we had swords which were a bit too heavy for practical single hand
fighting.

>Now, guess what will happen if he was using a dagger.... >The result would be even uglier. I got video of that fight and if >you want, I may show you.

Hey, if you are ever in New Orleans, or if by some miracle I ever make it to Hong Kong, I would be delighted to try you out on the field and how much sword fighting we can show each other <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

JR

[John_Clements]

I have to say here it’s commendable that Jeanry’s attitude has been so receptive and modest. I respect that a good deal. In the past, several individuals in this community who contacted me in private (and a few in public) for comments and feedback on their own videos of sparring and training reacted childishly to critiques and advice. As a result of our feedback they now no longer associate with ARMA or even treat us with common courtesy –all because their egos didn’t get the validation from us their self-esteem needed. They valued our knowledge and opinions…right up until it made them feel inadequate. As the adage goes, if you can’t handle honest answers, don’t ask for them, I guess. So, it’s refreshing to see everyone fair comments being taken constructively as they were meant.

JC

[Brian Hunt]

John,

I agree completly. It can be very humbling to recieve an outside critique of yourself. It can also be a very enlighting experience as well. But for it to become one, you must have the type of an attitude that Jeanry has displayed here. I am very impressed with him because of this. <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just my 2 cents worth.

Brian Hunt.

[JeanryChandler]

I tried sparring today trying some of those new guards, correct footwork and lingering blows, and I got my ass kicked! <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/blush.gif" alt="" /> I think I had a lot of trouble trying to always step with each strike, especially if you end up close to each other, once we get bunched up I seem to do a lot better if I just stand there and swing.... Parrying was also very challenging if I tried to step as I parried every time. I was also trying to transition from guard to guard with each strike or parry, as Lance had suggested, but it didn't feel natural.

I suspect I'll have to unlearn some bad habits, and figure out how to align and possibly adjust some of these things to fit my own personal style.

It's a long road to legitimacy. And now my sparring partner has bragging rights. Humility is endless.

DB

[JeanryChandler]

I agree completly. It can be very humbling to recieve an outside critique of yourself. It can also be a very enlighting experience as well. But for it to become one, you must have the type of an attitude that Jeanry has displayed here. I am very impressed with him because of this.

Thanks a lot y'all for saying that. I guess I can handle the critique because I was well aware beforehand that I don't know a lot of the basics of WMA, and I can sense that it's meant honestly. Also because I get probably too much respect as a fighter from people I spar with here locally which offsets any ego bruising I feel somewhat. But I don't want to be a big fish in a little pond, I really want to learn this stuff. Everybody says I belong in a different time era, and they may be right.

Plus that clip wasn't exaclty the greatest fighting I ever did, it was a very casual bit of free play. One day I'll post some clips which will amaze! (Or possibly just generate a lot more criticism...)

There is one trick I learned to cope with ego issues as a writer. When I write a story or an articfe or a rpg piece, I let my girlfriend read it first, she very uncritically loves everything I write. Then a few other people who I know are also mild critics and generally did my style of writing and opinions. Then basking in the glow of unwaranted self esteem, I send it to my editors! They may tear it apart but by then I feel ok, so I can learn from the mistakes. Finally, if it's an essay or an opinion piece, I may sometimes post it to a public forum to see what kind of points people are predisposed to disagree with me raise. After I quit tearing out my hair over the heresy which has stung my ears, I often learn a few things. In the long run I end up with a better written piece.

[JeanryChandler]

I'm going to make myself a pell to practice cutting on this weekend. I finally understand why this is ncesseary. Any advice on how to make it? Also, does anyone know anything about the sword I posted a link to?

JR

[TimSheetz]

HI Jeanry,

Once you work the techniqes enough to be natural, you won't be getting 'your ass kicked'.

When trying to do something new and different we (people in general) tend to think about it too much, and slow our reactions down. There is also the issues of timing and such which I found that I devloped a lot faster while getting my ass kicked.

Good Luck,

[Lance Chan]

Jeanry, don't be discouraged. It takes time to learn new moves. Try to do it a lot of times in solo first until you feel natural with it. You've to give your body lots of practice to get the motion into instinct before you can attempt to apply it in uncooperative environment and hope to success. Once you get the motion pinned down, then try apply it on sparring, and applies a lot to get hold of the distaning and timing issues. Keep the solo practice as well, for the fine tuning process is never-ending.

It's a long road indeed but it will show the difference. <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Brian Hunt]

Hi Jeanry,

I started in the SCA for my broadsword work. I still find myself occasionally throwing a shot from that former training, especially if I pick up an arming sword and a shield. It takes time and effort to retrain the muscles and to retrain your reflexes for the timing that the new moves need. After a lot of work, it will start coming to you. At first it is akward, but the first time you throw and land a correct shot in sparring is a great feeling. And the more you train the better you get, until your buddies are going to want to learn what you are doing because they are going to be tired of getting creamed even worse by you than before. I can only reiterate the advice you have been given about practicing techniques with all of the various tools. I also highly reccomend a lot of solo practice with a wooden waster just practicing the cuts and moving through the guards. That plus practicing proper techniques with an interested friend has been the two best things to help me start to retrain myself. I am still getting there, but when I spar now I am primarily using the techniqes of the masters and only occasionaly fall into old habits.

A good cheep portable pell can be made from two by fours. I like a six foot one for the upright, and you then create an attached stand at the base with four 2 foot ones much like a christmas tree stand. If one is worried about the beating a wooden waster would take against this, then you can duck tape pool noodles around the two by four. This can be somewhat portable depending on your vehicle. It will tip over with a good shot unless you peg or weight it down in some manner. Another cool idea for a striking dummy that I have been wanting to build is found here at this link web page I don't know how good of a target it would be for sword work since I haven't built one yet, but it looks pretty good to me. Some people use cut up tires attached to poles, or suspended from a chain, others use standard heavy punching bags. I also believe there are some older threads on the forum talking about various ways to make pells. Good luck with your training and have fun. <img src="http://www.thearma.org/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

with regards,

Brian Hunt.