New Article on Fitness and Fencing

[Webmaster]

Using the "F" Word - The Role of Fitness in Historical Fencing

[Casper Bradak]

Good stuff, plenty of historical backup as usual.
When was the pushup invented?
Ya'll need to read this! You know who you are! lol

[Joachim Nilsson]

Excellent and intriguing article John! A very interesting read I must say.

Concerning the use of stones for training:
The Swedish exiled archbishop Olaus Magnus wrote in his History of the Nordic Peoples [14th chapter, p. 685] (1555) that:

"Stones or blocks they throw so that they will learn how to with force heave aside obstacles or hold heavy objects lifted, as it is to become of those, who in combat have become wounded; since these shall be brought out of the battle to quicker get medical care, they must be supported upon the arms of strong comrades so that they will not fall down.

[My translation from Swedish to English.]

In the same chapter he also shows a woodcut(?) where one sees a band of youths lifting stones, carrying long sticks or poles (for lancetraining) and two individuals who appear to be either stretching or praticing some kind of gymnastics or traing leaping and jumping. Probably the latter since he in the same text also mentions leaping and jumping as a way of staying fit and avoiding obesity so that "...an adventurously too well fed and fattened belly will not make them unable to help themselves or others when it comes to mounting or dismounting the horse to flee or attack." <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Again my translation.]

Regards,

[GaryGrzybek]

This is really good as well as motivational.

Gotta beat the winter blues and get out there in the snow <img src="/forum/images/icons/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[Casper Bradak]

On the warriors diet and fitness
From the early 14th century instructional work on chivalry, by Geoffroi De Charni.
From the chapter; A good man at arms should not pamper his body.

"....And in addition, to sustain these wretched men's bodies, which have little time to live, they have to be provided with the best food and wine that are to be found, and require to eat at the right time, or otherwise they will be in too great distress because of the great delight they take in such things. And because of this gluttony, they dread the hardship associated with deeds of arms.
And indeed such delights are rejected by those who go in search of this high honor, for they have no regard for and do not indulge in such pleasures, but drink and eat whatever small amount they find and are quite satisfied; they do so gladly and joyfully for the sake of the honor which brings them such a great reward;........."
"And this life of long sleeping will stand in the way of those who want to attain high honor, for they have often to go to sleep late and rise early, and they have accustomed themselves to doing so, and this helps them to achieve physical fitness and honor."
"....the body, which dies just as soon, whether it be fat or lean."

[Erich Wagner]

The medieval equivalent to "Just Do It"

[TimSheetz]

Great Article.

Thankfully no one shouted out, "my technique is so good, I don't need conditioning!"

[Olgierd Pado]

That's probably bacause most of us realize (at least I do <img src="/forum/images/icons/frown.gif" alt="" /> ) that we cannot really achieve their level of conditioning. If old records are to be believed, our ancestors practiced regularly on a daily (or almost daily) basis.How many of us can do that?
That leads me to another question (perhaps it has been discussed before..., but I can't find it) - how do you develop arm strength necessary to wield your weapons?
Do you take Di Grassi's approach - start with light sticks and gradually increase the weight,
or do just Vegetius said - exercise with double weight weapons, so that steel swords feel lighter after some time?
Or maybe both?
For me Di Grassi's way works better - at least for now.

Cheers
Olgierd

[Jared L. Cass]

For me (and I should say I'm not huge or supper strong, but I don't tire easly while doing MA and I'm realitivly quick), the best is just simple body weight excersises. i.e.: push ups, pull ups, and sit ups/crunches. Add in some hindo-squats and yoga like stretching, and you've got all you need, IMO. You don't need any fancy equipment, and no-matter where you are, you can work out. Of course, just working at a pell with a waster will do alot, too <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> My routine takes only like 30minutes, and I just keep adding reps.

Then of course there are commonplace things: like taking the stairs instead of the elevator, parking at the end of a parking lot so you have to walk further, and taking the dog for a long walk when getting home from work...good for you, and the dog! Just some thoughts.

Jared L. Cass, ARMA Associate, Wisconsin

[JeanryChandler]

As probably the fattest single individual practicing WMA out there,I just wanted to say that I agree with the article.

I honestly don't know if I'm so fat because of some inherent personality flaw or because of something physiological, but I do know it didn't happen until I got a white collar job and a subsequently changed lifestyle. Somewhere a long the line of trying to adapt to white collar work from a blue collar past, I lost track of it.

Now days a renewed interest in WMA is part of my effort to get back in shape. Sparring regularly got my wind back again enough to be able to endure going to the gym, which I do now 3 or 4 times a week, for longer and longer periods. I hope I do crawl up out of this some day.

All I can say to the rest of you is, don't wait until you get fat to start seriously trying to stay in shape. It's a lot easier to fall down this hole than to crawl out of it.

...on the other hand, I don't consider myself morally inferior or anything for being fat, and anyone who says I can't practice WMA because of my size can come meet me on the field of honor to tell me so <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

JR

[Jaron Bernstein]

Actually, I am wondering at what point skill can compensate for conditioning. For example, I am in better physical conditin than one older (but still very formdable) member of our study group. He, however has the "old age and treachery" advantage and in sparring regularly bests me due to greater skill with a waster, despite a larger belly. Without discounting the obvious value of conditioning, I wonder at what point does skill start to compensate?

[TimSheetz]

Jaron,

Here's my thinking.... in a gym in a nice comfortable one on one sparring session, being fit may never help you if he is just better...

But add a dose of reality. Why don't make it a multiple combatant episode - one where you simply cannot remain still and patiently wait. You have to run.

OR better yet, in your sparring sessions, add a three on one episode several times. You cannot remain still. You must run. As soon as he is stressed this way he will likely flag. Then he will be slower and more tired.

OR, if you are stronger, work on closing techniques. Once you can get in on him you should be able to beat him.

Just both of you do a 200 meter sprint then immediately commence sparring to replicate the crossing of a battlefield.

I am not sure how this works out, but the "meet each other to duel" scenario lacks the realism that really shows how important conditioning is.

Heck, spend the first 15 minutes of your practice grappling. IF you are fit and he isnt' he'll probably be ill from so many wrestling bouts.

Just a few thoughts.

Tim

[Olgierd Pado]

Yeah, I know about additional (or basic - depending on the point of view) body exercises. I am also trying to do them as often as I can. I do not use elevator and walk quite a lot <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />
My question was more about getting used to wielding a sword for a longer time in combat.
In order to get used to this particular kind of effort you must train WITH a sword (or stick or whatever SLA that comes in handy) - in a way as much resembling actual fighting as possible.
My question was more about arm strength development and your preferred approach (Vegetius vs Di Grassi) than anything else.
I was just curious whose method works better in your opinion.

Cheers
Olgierd

[Ray Brunk]

Tim is right that fitness may not overcome someone with superior skill. Although this is true, being in good physical condition can help to close the gap. Imagine if the older heavier guy with superior skill got himself in better shape and lost that gut.How much better would he be? On the flip side...what if you got out of shape and developed a belly of your own? Either scenario would result in some tough sparring matches for you.Fitness &amp; strength can only make you better. Work hard to be stronger , faster and work diligently to improve your skill. Your day against the heavy guys will come. Until then feel confident that in a real multiple combatant situation his skill will deteriorate with every opponent. Hard to win when your sucking wind. On the run, you may be the more effective fighter. Don't settle for this thought, always strive to be better.
Ray

[Brian Hunt]

I love this article. The truths in it were brought very strongly to my attention this weekend at the Provo Seminar. During the 1.3 John had us doing some footwork exercises that were highly arobic. Arobic fitness has always been a weakness for me, and it was driven home to me how much farther I still need to go to continue to get into shape. I am in much greater shape today that I was a year ago, but I now know I need to work in more arobic activity as well as the body weight exercises and sword swinging I have been doing. And I will be doing the type of footwork exercises John had us doing for this. That way I get the best of both worlds, improved footwork and arobic fitness. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

just my 2 cents worth.

Brian Hunt.